Subject: Linux-Activists - DOC Channel digest. 93-4-12-4:59
From: "Linux Activists" <[email-masked]>
To: "Linux-Activists" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 12:32:43 +0300

Topics:
	 Re: Linux-Activists - DOC Channel digest. 93-4-11-11:14

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From: "Vincent D. Skahan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Linux-Activists - DOC Channel digest. 93-4-11-11:14
Date: Wed, 12 May 1993 07:48:35 +0300

> From: [email-masked] (Jay Pfaffman)
> Subject: DOC & ascii versions
> Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 15:53:27 +0300
> 
> It is difficult to believe that you, or anyone who can't read LaTeX,
> are willing or able to do any writing or serious editing.  If you are
> unable to read LaTeX source, then it seems highly unlikely that you
> are going to contribute anything worthwhile.  If you are not
> contributing anything, you have no place to complain.

I find it incredible that anybody could take such a close-minded elitist
attitude.  How you can equate a person's technical ability and/or their
willingness to lend a hand to the ability (or lack of) to use one
non-standard markup language is beyond me.

On one hand, you say "you dream of helping" yet you belittle some people
who say "we know we can help.  We want to help.  Help us help you".

> This project doesn't need "100's of proofreaders" it needs only a few
> careful and devoted ones.  Leave these people alone.  Wait for the
> public release or stop whining.  I'd recommend that you be removed
> from this mailing list and barred from posting on it.  You are not
> helping. 

Your last several comments are indicative of the problem with this
channel.  There were decisions that were made months ago regarding use
of TeX.  People (me included) disagreed but the decision was made
nevertheless.  Accordingly many people (me included) 'lurked' based on
the decision made and decided to review rather than write (because the
decision made our participation as writers impossible at that time).

Time passes...stuff is in alpha.  Some of it is good.  Some of it
is great (I printed the net doc in postscript.  Absolutely spectacular
in some areas...yes, I will be kicking comments to the author).

Now is the time you need the reviewers...but the total inability to
deal with relatively simple requests like "please give me the info
I need to take your documents and do *something* to them so I can
deal with your non-standard format (TeX is *NOT* standard no matter
how great it is) are taken as flames and personal affronts.

If you had more writers are proofreaders, you'd be largely done now.
My personal opinion is that the rigid defensive attitude is causing
the problems with lack of visible (released...) results.

I've also had some correspondance with leaders of the DOC project 
via private e-mail.  My point was that based on what I've seen,
I believe that the private alpha stuff should be released as-is
to the general public.  It's that good...and the need it that great.

I have received a number (over 5) of responses from people saying
"we agree with what you're saying.  the same constraints stop me
from helping too". 

Let the hundreds of people out there bleeding every day stop
the bleeding...and in the process, you'll have better docs quicker.

> ------------------------------
> 
> From: [email-masked] (JONATHAN J CHOY                     )
> Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 16:06:11 +0300
> 
> It seems to bear mentioning (again) that the docs here will have
> docs for printing them, as well as being *DISTRIBUTED* in a wide
> range of formats (tex, dvi, ps, hpgl, and ascii if I remember the
> traffic on this list correctly), but ONLY when it is done.
> 
> Since it's not done, it's not being distributed. End of thread, PLEASE?

That's the thing Greg and I are attempting to get you to revisit
and revise (or at least help get the word out how to deal with
the format you're using in the interim).

Everybody here seems to be taking this request as a personal affront.
Nothing could be further from the truth (although I must admit I think
significantly less of the people in the DOC channel as a result of
this thread, which is unfortunate)>

On the one hand, everybody complains there's too much work and not
enough workers, yet when we volunteer to help (provided you make a 
small change to help us lend a hand), it's flame city.

If you continue to limit the format you'll allow authors and reviewers
to work in, and you continue to release nothing until you're both all
up-to-date and all-erfect, you'll never get anything to the public.
You'll have fabulous alpha (private) docs and the users will continue
to wander helplessly.

Release some of your alpha docs with disclaimers (start with portions
of the net doc) and allow more people to see the fruits of your efforts
and to help too...

If you continue to release nothing and be exclusionary, you'll find that
there will be documents as good as yours (maybe not as pretty, but as good)
making it to the people before yours...such duplication of effort will
be a tremendous waste.

-- 
 ----------- Vince Skahan ------ [email-masked] -----------
 of course, all of the above are my opinions only and not my employer's

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