Subject: Linux-Activists - DOC Channel digest. 93-3-30-22:3
From: "Linux Activists" <[email-masked]>
To: "Linux-Activists" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 05:41:54 +0300

Topics:
	 Getting the books into print
	 Getting the books into print
	 Re: Linux-Activists - DOC Channel digest. 93-3-30-16:18 
	 Re: Linux-Activists - DOC Channel digest. 93-3-30-16:18
	 Re: [andyo: Re: Linux-Activists - DOC Channel digest. 93-3-30-16:18]

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From: [email-masked] (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Getting the books into print
Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 00:09:25 +0300

Thomas Koenig <[email-masked]> writes:

> Would it be possible to get the different Linux guides into print, once
> they have been completed?  Would, for example, O'Reilly be willing to
> publish them?

I imagine that the folks at O'Reilly who are on this list can answer that
one. :) All I want to say right now is that, yes, we have talked about it,
but we're going to wait until we actually have stable versions of the
manuals (and the software) ready before we pursue it any further.

mdw

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From: [email-masked] (Michael K Johnson)
Subject: Getting the books into print
Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 00:19:31 +0300

   Would it be possible to get the different Linux guides into print, once
   they have been completed?  Would, for example, O'Reilly be willing to
   publish them?

I can't speak for O'Reilly (Lar?), but if they don't want to do it, I
will probably end up arranging something myself.  It will have to wait
until the docs are stable enough to print, but it will happen, one way
or the other.  I don't think that most of our docs will be ready to
print until the end of this year or the beginning of next, but that is
only my prediction.

So, if O'Reilly wants to do them, that's fine by me, and I won't have
to bother myself.  If they don't, I will start looking into
alternatives.  I know a little bit about what is available, but not
enough yet.  I know the people to contact to find out, though, as I
started work on a project like this before, in which the other party
pulled out.

I couldn't do this unless I had a job to finance the overhead, but I
imagine that I will have found one when the time comes for
publication.

I would get them done right, which would cost more than arl's $5
chinese printers, but I'd rather have good docs in good binding...

Any comments?

michaelkjohnson

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From: Lar Kaufman <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Linux-Activists - DOC Channel digest. 93-3-30-16:18 
Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 00:25:02 +0300

Thomas Koenig <[email-masked]> says:
> Just an off thought:
> 
> Would it be possible to get the different Linux guides into print, once
> they have been completed?  Would, for example, O'Reilly be willing to
> publish them?

Well, you could always ask...  (Not to be coy, but - it depends.)
Certainly we are very interested in Linux.  There are many issues
that would have to be worked out - at the appropriate time.

-lar

Lar Kaufman, Documentation Tools Specialist            [email-masked]
O'Reilly and Associates, Inc.                          617-354-5800
90 Sherman Street
Cambridge, MA 01240 USA     "You can quote me on that." - anonymous

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From: [email-masked] (Andy Oram)
Subject: Re: Linux-Activists - DOC Channel digest. 93-3-30-16:18
Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 01:05:25 +0300

Thomas Koenig writes:

> Would it be possible to get the different Linux guides into print, once
> they have been completed?  Would, for example, O'Reilly be willing to
> publish them?

I've talked to Matt Welsh about this possibility.  We'd like to help
the Linux project, and indeed, we might publish books from the Linux
Documentation Project with a large enough potential readership.

Some of the questions we are still talking about at O'Reilly, and
which we have yet to resolve, include:

    * Which books (or parts of books) are of general interest?  User's
      and system administrator's guides sound like good candidates.
      At first I assumed that we wouldn't have a reason to publish any
      of the kernel hacker's guide, but I've been told that a lot of
      people might be interested in a book like "Inside Linux" or "The
      Design of the Linux Operating System."

    * Which parts are a lot like our existing books?  Maybe we should
      adapt some of our existing books for Linux.  (Presumably they'll
      be more popular than the Linux Documentation Project books -- I
      hope I don't offend anybody by saying that!)

    * How do we identify and isolate the parts of the books that
      change fast?  These parts are not suitable for commercial
      publication.  Matt Welsh has pointed out that installation (a
      very important topic) should not be in an O'Reilly book because
      it chagnes weekly.  As I suggested above, parts of the kernel
      hacker's guide have the same problem, because they could change
      from release to release.

    * Since we want to put out the books as fast as possible, and we
      don't expect to make a lot of money on them, how can we get
      commercial-quality books without putting in a lot of time and
      effort at O'Reilly?

      Here again, I hope I can speak frankly without offending: our
      books are popular because we have a lot of professional staff
      spend a lot of time on them.  Your books are written mostly by
      amateur writers in their spare time.  I expect they'll be full
      of excellent content, but they won't be a lot of fun in terms of
      organization and style.

    * How can we distinguish the Linux Documentation Project books as
      a separate series?  Even if the quality is excellent, these
      books will reflect a different style and philosophy from ours --
      and an important part of our image lies in people knowing what
      to expect when they buy an O'Reilly book.  We'll have to show
      through the cover design that this is not a typical O'Reilly
      book.  We'd be happy to do that, but it's a new venture for us.

    * Where do royalties go?  That's not much of a problem, because
      there will not be much in the way of royalties!  I should be
      more optimistic.  Anyway, author royalties should go back into
      the Linux project somehow.  Of course, the books will be under
      the GPL.
 
If I've said anything you think is wrong, or that you have an answer
for, feel free to respond.  This is an on-going discussion at
O'Reilly.  We are looking at many options -- for instance, converting
some of our own books.  But I will keep track of the Linux
Documentation Project and talk to Matt and to the authors about this
idea more.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Oram    O'Reilly & Associates, Inc.                 [email-masked]
             90 Sherman Street, Cambridge, MA 02140     (617) 354-5800
                                                    fax (617) 661-1116
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [email-masked] (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: [andyo: Re: Linux-Activists - DOC Channel digest. 93-3-30-16:18]
Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 02:09:30 +0300

[email-masked] (Andy Oram) writes:
>     * Which parts are a lot like our existing books?  Maybe we should
>       adapt some of our existing books for Linux.  (Presumably they'll
>       be more popular than the Linux Documentation Project books -- I
>       hope I don't offend anybody by saying that!)

No offense taken. :) Your books will be popular, but for a different
reason. Our books will be, on the other hand, "required reading" for
working with Linux (esp. the Install guide).

>     * How do we identify and isolate the parts of the books that
>       change fast?  These parts are not suitable for commercial
>       publication.  Matt Welsh has pointed out that installation (a
>       very important topic) should not be in an O'Reilly book because
>       it chagnes weekly. 

I'm hoping that this isn't true. The Install/Setup guide should contain
very stable information once it's ready: I've been generalizing quite a
bit, and by the time you'd be ready to publish it I believe it would be
quite well-founded. We'll see when the time comes (if it comes).

>       Here again, I hope I can speak frankly without offending: our
>       books are popular because we have a lot of professional staff
>       spend a lot of time on them.  Your books are written mostly by
>       amateur writers in their spare time.  I expect they'll be full
>       of excellent content, but they won't be a lot of fun in terms of
>       organization and style.

I've seen the alpha Linux Networking Guide, and I must say that I am
impressed. The "quality" of the manuals varies somewhat, we hope that as
we work on them further we'll have near-O'Reilly quality (as far as the
style is concerned). Wishful thinking? :)

mdw

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End of DOC Digest
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