Subject: libidn - International Domain Names

From: Hans Schou <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:11:38 +0200 (CEST)

Hi

Are there any plans of adding IDN to Pine?

>From 1. january 2004 there will be offered domain names in Denmark 
with the special danish letters æøåÆØÅ and some more. The standard to 
use will be RFC-3490 -3491 -3492 which is all implemented in libidn 
( http://www.gnu.org/software/libidn/ )

One way to use libidn could be the way the KDE group does. As I 
understand they will look for libidn and load and use it if it is 
there. Sound like a good way to solve it.
http://dot.kde.org/1057799730/

Yet, I have not seen any mail programs where IDN is implemented but I 
think it could be done quite simple. As an example I will use the 
danish word "mølle" which could be spelled "moelle" in english.
When run through "idn" it becomes:
	$ echo mølle.dk | idn --idna-to-ascii --quiet
	xn--mlle-gra.dk

And the reverse way:
	$ echo xn--mlle-gra.dk | idn --idna-to-unicode --quiet
	mølle.dk

Sending a mail to [email-masked] with Pine could then be done like:
1. In Pine convert the address from [email-masked] to 
   [email-masked] before saving to send-file.
2. When looking at mails which has been send, all email adresses
   should be converted reverse with idn.
3. Received mail which is stored by the local MTA is not 
   converted addresses. Pine will then convert them before
   showing them.

If libidn is loaded all addresses should be converted, even domains
with 7-bit ASCII only. libidn can handle this.

With the above system all domain names stored on disk will always be 
in 7-bit ASCII domain names - and people should be less confused.

Is this a little thing to add or do you want me to send a patch?
I have never looked at the source for Pine so it will take me
some time to get in to it.

best regards/hans (Pine user since 1993)
-- 
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Schou Industries ApS      http://schou.dk/    CVR: 26 13 44 39
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From: Mats Dufberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:09:23 +0200 (CEST)

>    converted addresses. Pine will then convert them before

What about URL:s and mailaddresses within the text part, should pine do
anything with them. Say that I write

"...blah blah. Find the last patch at <http://räksmörgås.se/>. Blah..."

Should the URL be saved as it is, or as
"<http://xn--rksmrgs-jiao1opted.se/>"? Do you know if there is any
specification for the HTML standards yet?

Mats

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Mats Dufberg                                      [email-masked]
Blaoarvsgraend 42                                  +46-8-38 48 59
SE-162 45 Vaellingby, Sweden                      +46-70-258 2588

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From: Hans Schou <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:29:51 +0200 (CEST)

> What about URL:s and mailaddresses within the text part, should pine
> do anything with them. Say that I write

No. Only the mail adresses which is in the fields:
 * From
 * To
 * Cc
 * Bcc

The reason why I think it is a good idea to convert the addresses in
the send-file is if the users also uses another mail program which can
not handle idn. Maybe this should be discussed with other mail program
developers such as Kmail, Mozilla and Evolution.

If you send a CC to a person which can not handle IDN, he can still 
reply to all as there is no foreign letters in the mail he receive. 
All mailers which can handle IDN will show the address with foreign 
letters.

One thing is for sure, the address should be converted before it is 
delivered to the MTA, as no MTA's can handle idn and probably never
will be able to do it.

> Do you know if there is any specification for the HTML standards
> yet?

As I understand the RFC, URL's written in HTML should be written with
the foreign letters. The browser itself should be able to handle
conversion. Mozilla 1.4 can do this now for browsing but not for
e-mail.

/hans

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From: Mats Dufberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 00:22:11 +0200 (CEST)

> developers such as Kmail, Mozilla and Evolution.

Well, I'd say that you must convert IDN domains to ACE in any header field
(not only the ones above) to be RCF 2822 compliant.

> delivered to the MTA, as no MTA's can handle idn and probably never

I would never say "never". :-)

> conversion. Mozilla 1.4 can do this now for browsing but not for

Have you seen any update to the URL format that permits non ASCII
characters in URL's?

Mats