Subject: Re: PC-Pine, Exchange IMAP Server, & Message-ID problem

From: Nancy McGough <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:20:23 +0000 (GMT)

On 10 Jan 2001, Eduardo Chappa ([email-masked]) wrote:
> Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:12:31 -0800 (PST)
> Sender: [email-masked]
> From: Eduardo Chappa <[email-masked]>
> To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: PC-Pine, Exchange IMAP Server, & Message-ID problem
> In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.31.9.0101102237230.-425009@no>
> X-To: Nancy McGough <[email-masked]>
> X-Cc: Pine Discussion Forum <[email-masked]>
>
> *** Nancy McGough ([email-masked]) wrote in the...:
> :) It would be great if this could be fixed in the next release of
> :) Pine.
>
> It's not clear to me why you think it is a problem with Pine. Pine gets
> the value of the headers from the server, so I do not see what Pine can do
> about it. The message-id in the in-reply-to header was certainly not
> generated by Pine. I certainly don't have that problem with the same
> version of Pine. In my opinion you are reporting the bug in the wrong
> place. Maybe you should report it to the imap mailing list or
> comp.mail.imap or the designer of the IMAP server you are using.

As I described back in November in comp.mail.pine, which people
can read in the Deja.com link I gave, the *correct* Message-ID is
in fact on the IC Exchange Server. For example, I can view it
when I type H to view full headers and I've included it in my
excerpt of Eduardo's message above.

Unfortunately, Pine is not using it when it generates the
In-Reply-To header or when Message-ID is included in viewer-hdrs
(that's what my discussion in November was about).

My guess is that MS Exchange stores it's own internal
Message-ID's in addition to the correct standard Internet message
Message-ID. If Microsoft were savvy about Internet standards,
they would have named their internal Message-ID something like
MSEX-Message-ID but as we all know MS does not play fair and does
not respect Internet standards. So even though this might
ultimately be a bug with MS Exchange, it is going to reflect
badly on Pine. Remember what happened back in 1995 when Pine
included a Newsgroups header in a message that was only mailed
privately to a person and then the person replied -- thinking his
reply was private -- and it got both posted and mailed? The Pine
developers argued that those mail clients weren't following
standards, and maybe they weren't, but the whole fiasco really
made Pine look bad and I think that some of the hatred of Pine
that exists today goes back to that fiasco. If Pine doesn't fix
this problem, which it seems like it should be able to do since
the correct Message-ID is in fact sitting on the MS Exchange
server, then my guess is that this will be another example of
Pine looking bad because others aren't following standards.

If this is an MS bug and if they do fix it, there is still the
problem that there will be MS servers for years that have this
old bug.

So, I stand by what I said: I hope this can be fixed in the next
release of Pine.

Thanks,
Nancy

-- 
For Pine links, see http://www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/

Nancy McGough          http://www.ii.com          Infinite Ink
=- Sent via PINE 4.31.9: Internet News & Email for Win/Unix -=

---

From: Steve Hubert <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:01:33 -0800 (PST)

Nancy,
  Could you run with -d imap=4 debugging and send us the debug file or
relevant parts? We need to figure out where the wrong message-id is coming
from. Thanks.

-- 
Steve Hubert <[email-masked]>
Networks and Distributed Computing, Univ. of Washington, Seattle