Subject: Message to save shrank

From: Atle Weibell <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 22:37:21 +0200 (METDST)

Honored Pine users,

I get this message each time I try to save a mail with attachments to a
local folder:

[Message to save shrank!  (#6: 49523 --> 838)

...where #6 is the message no in INBOX, 49253 the size of the message with
attachment, and 838 the size without attachment.

I also sometimes get another message:
[Message size does not match expected size, continuing...]

This happens also on messages that doesn't contain attachments...

Anyone knows why this happens?

Regards,
-- 
Atle Weibell | [email-masked] | pr 51690007 | mo 90690010 | fx 51690431 |

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From: Joseph Scanlan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:06:46 -0700 (PDT)

> Anyone knows why this happens?

No but for me the error is predictable.

I always get this message when I try to save a netflix.com message from
my inbox to saved-messages.  My inbox is on mailandnews.com IMAP server
and saved-messages is on one of our own IMAP servers.  I can use
Netscape to transfer the message.  After that, Pine has no problems
saveing the same message to other folders on our server.

Any ideas?

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From: "Daniel Sands" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 17:41:01 -0600

Yeah, your IMAP server is M$ Exchange, and it is configured to give message
size estimates instead of actual message sizes.  The only thing you can do to
change this is to request that your IMAP admin make the appropriate change.

---

From: Joseph Scanlan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 17:28:01 -0700 (PDT)

On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, Daniel Sands <[email-masked]> wrote:

> Yeah, your IMAP server is M$ Exchange, and it is configured to give
> message size estimates instead of actual message sizes.  The only
> thing you can do to change this is to request that your IMAP admin
> make the appropriate change.

Interesting.  mailandnews.com anounces itself as

	* OK InterChange IMAP4 Server v3.61.06 Ready

Also.  I see this if (and only if) the mail comes from
netflix.com.  Could there be some other explanations?

---

From: Atle Weibell <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:18:17 +0200 (METDST)

My ISP is running IMAIL as mailserver...but it's possible that they both
do the same thing... Anyway, that is only concerned with the last issue -
that message size doesn't match expected size, and not with the 'message
to save shrank'-case, I suppose.

-- 
Atle Weibell | [email-masked] | pr 51690007 | mo 90690010 | fx 51690431 |

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they AREN'T after you.

On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, Daniel Sands wrote:

> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 17:41:01 -0600
> From: Daniel Sands <[email-masked]>
> To: Pine Discussion Forum <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: Message to save shrank
>

---

From: Bruce Cohen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 08:12:26 +0200 (MET DST)

I, too, have been having problems with message to save shrank for some months.
The problem started when my provider installed a different io handler.
If I look at the headers, I see that this new io handler adds a line to 
the first "Received:" header: for example,

    (envelope-from [email-masked])

If I log on to pine and do not open the INBOX and then
quit the automatic move to mbox works fine, however neither the automatic move
or the manual save to mbox will work if the INBOX has actually been opened.

The message will shrink by a certain number of bytes, depending upon who sent
the message. In the above example (PINE-INFO as sender) the message to save
shrinks by 64 bytes - the above line is however only about 48 bytes.

If I look at the headers in the pine INBOX I see that the previous line appears to be
too long (DST is in the wrong place):

Received: from put.worldonline.nl (relay-2.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.138])
        by pop3-1.worldonline.nl (8.9.3 (WOL 1.2)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22295
        for <[email-masked]>; Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:54:54 +0200 (MET 
DST)
        (envelope-from [email-masked])

If I then count immediately after MET and count all spaces it's 64 bytes.

If I look at the saved header from the mbox (assuming I can somehow convince
the message to move there), I see that the previous line seems to be OK, if
indeed a trifle long for comfort (76 bytes plus $0A $09). Can it be that
pine expands the TAB to spaces and then recompresses? It it getting confused
because the expanded line is now over 80 bytes? Will this problem disappear
magically if I have the provider upgrade to 4.21 Unix (presently 3.96)?

If I try to respond to a message, the quoting no longer works the way 
it's supposed to: the > only appears on the first line - I have to
add the rest manually!

There are other problems with the INBOX as well, that may or may not be
related to the message shrank problem, but certainly are related to the
change in io handler: 

1) some messages appear twice in the Index - if you read one and quit, the
"duplicate" is gone on the next login. 

2) sometimes messages that aren't marked for deletion are expunged with 
those that are marked. However, on the next login they're (usually) back again
where they belong.

3) sometimes (rarely) messages that are marked for deletion won't expunge.

Once a message has made it to the mbox, there are no further problems with
it - it can't be moved at will to another folder or whatever.

Can anyone shed any light on the subject?

Bruce Cohen

>Regards,
>-- 
>Atle Weibell | [email-masked] | pr 51690007 | mo 90690010 | fx 51690431

---

From: Bruce Cohen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 08:20:50 +0200 (MET DST)

Forgot one:

Sorting by date in the INBOX no longer works correctly, as well -
it's ALMOST right, but a few messages will appear out of order...

Bruce

---

From: Scott Leibrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 08:35:23 -0700 (PDT)

> it's supposed to: the > only appears on the first line - I have to

Have you tried using ^J to justify it?  I get this behavior when quoting
text produced by certain GUI mail clients that don't do any wrapping on
outgoing mail.  ^J takes care of the entire paragraph.

-- 
Scott Leibrand
[email-masked]            (Yes, that is a valid address.)
http://students.washington.edu/leibrand
* RCW 19.190 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. *
* Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message.          *

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From: Bruce Cohen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:43:37 +0200 (MET DST)

Tried it but it doesn't fix the problem. Anyhow it is definitely related
to the header problem - quoting was fine until message to save shrank
happened.

Do the pine developers follow the forum?

Bruce

---

From: Scott Leibrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:57:29 -0700 (PDT)

> Do the pine developers follow the forum?

Yes, they do.  If you want, you can also send a message to
[email-masked] (or [email-masked] if you're sure
you've found a bug that hasn't been previously identified).  There's no
guarantee you'll get a response, though.  Their job is to produce new and
improved versions of Pine, not necessarily to answer everyone's Pine
questions.  :)

---

From: Bruce Cohen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:11:48 +0200 (MET DST)

I'm beginning to think that it's a bug - I can't view the msgs in hex
on whatever remote machine INBOX connects to, but as I look at them in the
mbox I think that pine should be able to handle the headers...the only
thing I can come up with is that pine has to be expanding the tabs into
spaces causing some lines to overflow, which then confuses pine itself.

(for the record, the below has been ^J'd)

---

From: Scott Leibrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 00:17:03 -0700 (PDT)

Please wait a second while I hit myself over the head with a 2x4...

Ok.  Done with that.  Now what I should have told you the first time is
that you need to upgrade to Pine 4.21.  You're still using 3.96, so it's
no wonder things don't work the way I expect.  :)

---

From: Bruce Cohen <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:15:15 +0200 (MET DST)

Will 4.21 deal properly with the header as described?

I don't really wan't to ask the provider to upgrade if it won't fix the
problem.

Bruce