Subject: Re: PC-Pine's GUI (was: spell checking add-on) (fwd)

From: Terry Gray <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:53:49 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)

On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Robert Larmon wrote:

> > Then why even bother using Pine?
> 
> Because it's free!!!  (and a darn good program too)  It also fits our
> remote needs and is relatively maintenance free.
> 
> The reason I talk about a more GUI-like interface is that my users are
> starting to ask why Pine is still using a UNIX-style (they say DOS)
> interface for their office needs/wants.  I have a 40%/60% mix of users who
> prefer GUI/functionality.  Unfortunately for me the 40% are the ones who
> make the most noise.  I'd love to give them a more GUI-ized PC-Pine so
> that they will be satisfied and I can still use and provide the product
> that I prefer.

Robert,
This is an issue of interest to many of us.

Is it fair to say that PC-Pine's viability is purely a question of
aesthetics (we agree that PC-Pine is a bit homely in appearance :), or are
there any specific GUI amenities your folks are looking for?

Here's the current PC-Pine GUI check list:

 Mouse can be used in lieu of command keys
 Mouse can be used to select text, select messages, set marks, etc
 Right mouse button gives context-sensitive pop-up command list
 Toolbar (choice of top or bottom)
 Pull down menu
 Option for separate message viewing window
 Embedded URL recognition and browser dispatch
 Scroll-bars
 Dialogue boxes (though some of these are a bit rough)
 GUI font and color selection (though only monospaced fonts so far)
 Windows-based spell-checker

Anything else?

Of course a cardinal design goal of PC-Pine is to never *force* you to
take your hands off the keyboard, so the idea is to provide all of the GUI
capabilities while retaining full keyboard functionality.

Comments welcome.

-teg

---

From: Robert Larmon <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:17:08 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)

> there any specific GUI amenities your folks are looking for?

Terry,
	There are a few minor amenities that my users requested, but all I
can remember off the top of my head was a multi-pane view.  (i.e. left
pane - folderlist OR indexlist, top pane - folderlist OR indexlist, bottom
right pane - main text of message)  I'll send you more when I can find my
list.  Otherwise, yes, it is purely a question of aesthetics.  I think the
support for different fonts beyond mono-spaced would help a lot too.
Also, support for web viewing without needing to rely on IE4 installed
would be a big plus, esp. since we are delaying Win98 upgrades at least
until Win98 SE is stable (maybe by next year? :)

Thanks, and I hope this helps,

Robert

> capabilities while retaining full keyboard functionality.

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`			Robert Larmon				      `
`			PC Systems Analyst			      `
`			USC Law School Computing Services	      `
`			[email-masked]			      `
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

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From: Scott Leibrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:55:33 -0700 (PDT)

> capabilities while retaining full keyboard functionality.

I think you guys have done a very good job with PC-Pine, but there are
still a couple things on my PC-Pine-specific wish list.  Firstly, I wish
there were some way for PC-Pine to behave more intelligently over a slow
modem link.  As it is now, Pine will sit there for 10-30 seconds doing
something, and not even tell us what it's doing.  I'd like to be able to
see what it's doing that's taking so long, cancel it if I feel like it,
and most of all, be able to do things that don't require network traffic
while Pine is waiting for a response.  I realize that many of these
problems are at the level of Windows' networking protocols, but I still
think you can work around that and accomplish most of what I listed.

Secondly, I'd like to see stand-alone spell-checkers like ispell available
for DOS that we could configure PC-Pine to use.  In my opinion, PC-Pine's
integrated spell-checker violates your cardinal design rule:  it forces
users to use the mouse, or at least go through an unwieldy sequence of
tabs, etc. to accomplish what would just take an A or I in Unix Pine (with
ispell).

-- 
Scott Leibrand
[email-masked]
Student Staff & Training Technical Support Lead
University of Washington Computing and Communications
How to contact me:
http://students.washington.edu/leibrand/howtocontactme.html
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