Subject: Pine 4.10 Save Command

From: Bino Gopal <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:09:22 -0400 (EDT)

Hello all,

Just subscribed to the pine-info list for the first time.  I've been using
Pine for 6 years now, and was pretty familiar with it; but this was b/c
the most reason version installed on our servers was 3.95 (I understood
the behavior very well, was thoroughly versed in all the options I could
set, had procmail set up, xbuffy going, and life was good! :).

Now, 4.10 was just installed Tuesday, and a lot of things have
changed--mostly for the better.  I like the web browsing feature, and
nested folder collections have been my biggest wish (now answered).  I
think I've pretty much figured out all the behaviors that have ben
confusing me, except for one thing, which for the life of me looks like a
bug:

When I save a message in Pine 3.95, say if it starts in Folder Collection
1 (FC1), and I need to save it to FC2, I find the easiest method is to use
^T and go to folder collections screen, browse around, find the right
folder, hit enter to select it, then hit enter once more to confirm the
save, and then the message is saved to the new location.  Well, this is
how it always was in Pine, up to 3.95 AFAIK.

But now in 4.10, after using ^T, the FC being saved to doesn't change; it
only selects the name of the folder, but not the FC that that folder is
in! 

This seems intuitively wrong--unless all folders in all your FC's had
corresponding names, then why wouldn't it also pick the FC that that
folder is in?  What's more, I think this behavior is actually dangerous,
b/c if you're saving a message to your Friends FC, to the folder John,
and you're in the Enemies FC where someone is also named John, you can
save the message in the completely wrong folder and not even know it!

Now, I've checked the list message archives on the website, and I haven't
seen anything on this subject.  Maybe I'm just missing a configuration
option, but I've gone through the setup/config with a fine-toothed comb,
and read all the help pages in there (as I did long ago for 3.95), and I
could find no setting, nor even a mention of this behavior being a new
feature or anything of the sort.  So I was hoping that someone could
enlighten me as to what is going on here, and, hopefully, how to fix it
(Im really hoping that it can be fixed, as this is a truly annoying
feature; or lack of one I should say).

Well, I hope someone out there can help me figure this out.  Thank you
very much.

							BINO

P.S. One other thing I've noticed, and must be a definite bug: there's no
option to turn on the keymenu at the bottom of the screen.  Now I've
always had it off once i figured out what I was doing, but when 4.10 was
installed, I was desperately wishing for it to be back on, and there was
no setup/config for that; I had to go edit the .pinerc manually and rem
out the line on the old-growth-feature-set which was disabling it.  This
is most likely a huge drawback for any newbies; relative or complete (as I
found out).  I'm assuming that this is a bug?

---
Bino Gopal                                      
Network Analyst                                 
Academic Information Systems                    
Columbia University                             
[email-masked]                               

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From: Maxime Rousseau <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:21:10 -0400 (EDT)

Hello all, This is my first post here so please be indulgent :)

I have seen a message regarding Outlook and how it is possible to make it
export his eMails in a format readable by pine but no answer was ever
posted. ( I didnt see it in the archives anyhow. )

So I was wondering if anyone has EVER done something to actually make the
"Outlook -> PINE" mail migration work?

Thanks,

-------------------------------
Maxime Rousseau, SQA Multimedia
Matrox Graphics Inc.

---

From: "Ed Greshko" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:50:34 +0800

Maxime,

> "Outlook -> PINE" mail migration work?

Outlook98 speakes IMAP4, Pine speakes IMAP4.

Place messages from Outlook98 folder into a folder on the server.
Retrieve messages from folder on server with pine.

Done?

Ed

---

From: Jessica Rasku <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:53:55 -0700 (PDT)

> how it always was in Pine, up to 3.95 AFAIK.

	Okay, I just checked my Pine 3.96 and I see what you are talking
about, I never used this feature (or rarely), myself.  So, I don't remeber
how it worked.  I always used the arrow keys (up and down) to chose the
collection, and then simply typed (ussualy with Tab completion), the
folder name I was looking for.  

> only selects the name of the folder, but not the FC that that folder is

	In 4.05 the behaviour is typical of all folder etc. browsing.  You
can go up and down with < and > (or is that down and up?).  So it will
present the ``default for saves'' folder, but you can back up to the
folder list using <.  

> save the message in the completely wrong folder and not even know it!

	Here may be a problem related to the one that I had.  I didn't
name my folders in 3.96, as I could tell by the command line what they
were without naming them, so no big deal.  Then, when I moved to 4.05, I
found I couldn't ``change'' the folder collection the same way, so
something must be wrong there.  In truth, nothing was wrong, just that the
behaviour had changed so that unnamed folders all looked the same.  Wasn't
a big deal under 3.96, but is under 4.05

> found out).  I'm assuming that this is a bug?

	Yes, this is a bug, someone recently asked about it, and indeed it
is a bug.  It is being fixed (will be fixed with the next release was what
we were told).  

							Jessica

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---

From: Prince Of Angels <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:17:15 -0400 (EDT)

On Fri, 9 Apr 1999, Ed Greshko wrote:
> > I have seen a message regarding Outlook and how it is possible to makeit

Not quite... Maybe I dont understand what you are trying to tell me but,
taking a outlook folder and ftping it onto my linux machine ( I took the
file sample.mbx ) will not work as expected.

Instead, I see one big Message:

  [Part 1, Application/OCTET-STREAM (Name: "sample.mbx")  242KB]
  [Cannot display this part. Press "V" then "S" to save in a file]

Also, if the size of the file is too large, PINE dies on me like this:

  Problem detected: "Out of free storage".
  Pine Exiting.
  IOT trap/Abort (core dumped)

But in neither of thoses cases do I find the solution to my problem..
Observing further into the .mbx file I noticed that every eMail has its
"From:" -key- field crippled somehow.

The field: From: "Microsoft Outlook Express Team" <[email-masked]> 
Shows as : JMF6^C

So PINE does not see it properly.

Any Ideas as what this thing is? I noticed that the line does not show as
the same thing depending if I use pico or more to view it.. (??)

Thanks,
Max

---

From: "Ed Greshko" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:51:10 +0800

> file sample.mbx ) will not work as expected.

I don't recall ever using the phrase "ftp".

>   IOT trap/Abort (core dumped)

That is what I would have expected.

> But in neither of thoses cases do I find the solution to my problem..

OK.  First, let me say that I use both pine and Outlook98.

My understanding is that you want to move messages from a "local" folder on
Outlook98 to a "local" folder in pine.

So, the process is like so:

1.  In Outlook,  right click on the top level of the IMAP server.  Choose
"New Folder".  Go through the process of creating a new folder on the
server.  Call it what you will...."Transit Stop" comes to mind.

2.  In Outlook, highlight the messages you want to move to the "local"
folder in pine.  Perform the "Move to Folder" or "Copy to Folder" depending
on your desire.  Choose the destination you created in step #1.

....The messages are now on the server....then (I leave the details to you)
do the reverse operation in pine.  Move/copy them from the server to the
local folder.

No FTP, no RCP, no CP, no samba.....  OK, it is more than a single
step....but it works.

Ed

---

From: Bino Gopal <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:51:53 -0400 (EDT)

Thanks for your response Jessica.  Comments in-line.

> > how it always was in Pine, up to 3.95 AFAIK.
<snip>
> present the ``default for saves'' folder, but you can back up to the

I use the expand all folders and subdirs on view option, so when I go see
my FC's they're all expanded.  Also the < and > don't work when I'm
saving, either b/c of the expanded view, or b/c it's not supported during
saves...

> a big deal under 3.96, but is under 4.05

(Um, I don't understand how you would do this...?)

My point is just that if you use CTRL-T to point to a folder to save a
message, why doesn't it also pick the Folder Collection that that folder
is in?  Why is the FC assumed to be the same as the folder you're saving
the message from?!  That just doesn't make any sense...I'd like to hear
the reason (if there is one) for it to default to this behavior, and if
it's a mistake/bug, I'm hoping it'll be fixed.  The behavior I was used to
in Pine 3.95 made perfect sense--this doesn't.  Comments from anyone else
who can enlighten me on this?  Thanks in advance to everyone for their
help! :)

							BINO

---

From: Prince Of Angels <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:44:58 -0400 (EDT)

Please forgive me for making this thread so long and beign so stupid but I
seem to ( yet again ) fail to gasp a vital point here...

>server.  Call it what you will...."Transit Stop" comes to mind.

Alright, I just created the magic "Transit" folder who now displays just
below the "drafts" and is of the same level as Inbox directly under "Local
Folders". One thing, whats with the IMAP server? AFAIK this does not uses
IMAP because my server does not runs IMAPd. I get eMail using POP3.

>folder in pine.  Perform the "Move to Folder" or "Copy to Folder"
>depending on your desire.  Choose the destination you created in step #1.

No problem here.

>No FTP, no RCP, no CP, no samba.....  OK, it is more than a single

Now this one kills me.. I am here on my Desktop PC with my "Transit"
outlook folder. How can the messages be on the mail server if I dont ftp
the folder.mbx file, samba it or something? I mean, whats the magic
something thats supposed to happen to make this folder be on my mail
server?

Thank you very much for helping me with this as I know many others will be
interested in knowing the how-to of this.

Best Thanks,
Dumb-Max

---

From: "Marcin 'Qrczak' Kowalczyk" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 05:51:59 +0200

> posted. ( I didnt see it in the archives anyhow. )

Outlook Express? Try this (giving *.mbx as arguments):

#!/usr/bin/perl

$ENV{LC_ALL} = "C";
$data = `date`;
chomp $data;

foreach (@ARGV)
{
	open IN, $_;
	open OUT, ">$ENV{HOME}/mail/$_";
	sysseek IN, 0x5C, 0;
	while (sysread IN, $dlugosc_raw, 8)
	{
		$dlugosc = unpack "I", $dlugosc_raw;
		sysread IN, $_, $dlugosc - 8;
		s/\0.*$//s;
		s/\r//g;
		print OUT "From $ENV{USER}\@localhost $data\n$_\n";
	}
}

-- 
 __("<    Marcin Kowalczyk * [email-masked] http://kki.net.pl/qrczak/
 \__/       GCS/M d- s+:-- a22 C+++>+++$ UL++>++++$ P+++ L++>++++$ E->++
  ^^                W++ N+++ o? K? w(---) O? M- V? PS-- PE++ Y? PGP->+ t
QRCZAK                  5? X- R tv-- b+>++ DI D- G+ e>++++ h! r--%>++ y-

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From: "Ed Greshko" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:30:05 +0800

> IMAP because my server does not runs IMAPd. I get eMail using POP3.

Well...you've just pointed out the problem.  POP3 v.s. IMAP4.

I should have thought of that earlier.  But who, in their right mind, would
want to use POP3.  :-) :-)

Regards,
Ed

P.S.  Glad to hear you got it working.....

---

From: Nancy McGough <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 09:31:41 -0400 (EDT)

> want to use POP3.  :-) :-)

Unfortunately there are still some ISPs who haven't yet jumped on the
IMAP bandwagon. Once they start losing customers though they should
jump on! I like Ed's technique for converting message folders and if
you want to use it and don't have access to an IMAP server, you can
get a free IMAP account at www.operamail.com or www.mailandnews.com 
MailandNews limits you to 10 meg of space so if your folder is bigger
than 10 meg, you'll have to split it up. I don't know if operamail has
a space limit (does anyone know?). Also, does anyone know of any other
free IMAP accounts -- I'd like to add them to my "Changing Your From
Header in Pine" page.

Thanks,
Nancy

-- 
For Pine info & links, see www.ii.com/internet/messaging/pine/
 
©Nancy McGough          http://www.ii.com          Infinite Ink
--= Sent via PINE: Power Internet News & Email for Win/Unix =--

---

From: "Ed Greshko" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:07:45 +0800

> Also, does anyone know of any other

http://intrastore.cdc.com

Ed

---

From: Joseph Scanlan <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 10:36:07 -0700 (PDT)

On Fri, 9 Apr 1999, Nancy McGough wrote:

> Also, does anyone know of any other free IMAP accounts --
> I'd like to add them to my "Changing Your From Header in
> Pine" page. 

http://www.telebot.net/

------------- My opinions are mine alone, and that fact -------------
------------- provides intense relief for my coworkers. -------------
Joe Scanlan                                         Clark County CEIT
Systems Programmer                                   fax 702 455-4932
[email-masked] (not work)                                PO Box 551761
[email-masked] (work)              Las Vegas, NV, 89155-1761, USA
-------------------- http://www.co.clark.nv.us/ ---------------------

---

From: Nancy McGough <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 14:18:25 -0400 (EDT)

> > I'd like to add them to my "Changing Your From Header in

According to 

 http://www.telebot.net/details.htm

they use POP. Do they also use IMAP and just aren't putting that on
their web page? 

Ob Pine comment: It's great to be able to use Pine to access free
email accounts!

---

From: Joseph Scanlan <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 14:49:16 -0700 (PDT)

On Fri, 9 Apr 1999, Nancy McGough wrote:

> they use POP. Do they also use IMAP and just aren't
> putting that on their web page?

Yes, they have an IMAP server.  I found them on a list of
free e-mail providers with Web clients.  The comments
mentioned IMAP.  I've used both Telebot and MailAndNews and
have settled on MailAndNews.  Not that Telebot was bad, I
just liked MailAndNews better.

It is nice having all my inboxes available from Pine.  Our
GroupWise server is set up for IMAP4 now.  I've had some
trouble with 3.95 and GroupWise that I've learned to work
around.  Pine 4.10 was a llittle more dificult to deal with
(but the Roles feature is great).  I read on this list that
I should recompile it with the beta IMAP libraries but I
haven't taken the time to do it yet.

-------------------- http://www.co.clark.nv.us/ ---------------------