Subject: RE: Spell Check, then lose email?

From: "Jonathan E. D. Richmond" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:13:30 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)

I guess the problem is that PINE is developed on a non-commercial
basis but has become such an excellent project that a vast array
of users depend on it. Especially with the availability of 
complementary UNIX and PC-PINE versions, this is one of the most
flexible emailing programs available, and there's no question that
when you're, say, in an Internet cafe in Tibet, the IMAP protocol
PINE uses is a million times more desirable than an endlessly
slow POP download.

Because it has become so popular and widely-used, it is more 
important to get things right the first time around. There really
shouldn't be four versions in one month except to a select group
of beta testers!

One of my favorite programs is Quark Express. They didn't come up
with an upgrade for three years, but when they finally released it,
it was virtually flawless...

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Ed Greshko wrote:

> "Ed Greshko" <[email-masked]>
> 10/08/98 11:33 PM GMT
> 
> To:       Pine Discussion Forum <[email-masked]>
> 
> cc:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Even better would be if we didn't release it at all, since many of these
> > bugs don't occur in the environment we use (and test in)...
> 
> You forgot the :-) face at the end, right?  Got some bad drugs, right?
> 
> As is said to Ann Landers many a times....
> 
> You blew this one Terry.  The proper answer would be,
> 
> Dear Jonathan,
> 
> Pine is tested by our development team and a group of beta testers.  We
> will
> consider asking you to be one of our beta testers.  However, we have to
> warn
> you that it takes time and dedication.  You will be asked to perform
> testing
> on a tight schedule and to provide detailed and accurate bug reports.
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> 
> > On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Jonathan E. D. Richmond wrote:
> >
> > > The problem with PINE is that it gets released with too many bugs in
> it.
> > > The file extension problem I mentioned earlier (MTX does not register
> > > correctly, resulting in .MTXs being added to all files) is another
> > > example. Instead of issuing a new version every other week, it
> > might make
> > > sense for the PINE people to take an extra month or so to
> > thoroughly test
> > > their new versions and try to eliminate as many bugs as possible!
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Chris Wood wrote:
> > >
> > > > Chris Wood <[email-masked]>
> > > > 10/08/98 03:41 PM GMT
> > > >
> > > > To:       Pine Discussion Forum <[email-masked]>
> > > >
> > > > cc:
> > > >
> > > > I just upgraded our system from 4.02a to 4.05.  We have
> > ispell installed
> > > > also.  With 4.05, if a user runs the spell checker (ctrl-t), when
> they
> > > > come back from ispell, they cannot down arrow.  If they up
> > arrow it takes
> > > > them to the subject, then if they down arrow it deletes the entire
> > > > email!!!  It's gone, can't uncut it.
> > > >
> > > > 4.02a didn't have this problem.  Anyone else out there
> > running into this?
> > > > Any tips on trying to figure out what it is?
> >
> 
> 
> 

-----

Jonathan E. D. Richmond                              (617) 864-6394
Fellow     	                                     (617) 496-3194
Taubman Center for State and Local Government 	FAX: (617) 496-1722
Kennedy School of Government
Harvard University
Cambridge MA 02138

e-mail: [email-masked] or [email-masked]
WWW: http://the-tech.mit.edu/~richmond/

---

From: Shawn Jeffries <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:31:47 -0400 (EDT)

But Jonathan - How much did you pay for that upgrade?

1> If you've got a bug to report, that's fine. I am sure that
   the whole development team would love to here from you.

2> If you want to write some code which fixes something you
   don't like, by all means, do so. They'll look at it.

3> If you don't like all the version releases because you say
   they have too many bugs, then just DON'T INSTALL THEM ALL.

    Shawn Jeffries
    [email-masked]
   "I here Eudora's on sale, real cheap."

---

From: "Ed Greshko" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:36:01 +0800

> it was virtually flawless...

Some people don't mind the number of releases of pine.  In truth, not all
the bugs fixed in the various releases were a bother to the majority of
people.  FWIW, I'd been running at 4.02 until I recently had a slow day and
decided...what the heck.  There were no bug fixes that had an effect on my
operations which made it critical to update.

I've not heard of Quark Express...but I wonder how many platforms they
support and if they also release the source code?

The wonderful world of porting to MS-Windows is littered with mine-fields.
This is especially true when you talk about MAPI implementations.  I've got
some lovely horror stories which are currently being experienced.

BTW, I'd be cautious about proclaiming Quark Express "virtually flawless".
Maybe it just worked for you.  I say this since I've experienced a situation
where about 3000 seats of a commercial SW package were installed in an
Enterprise.  Out of the 3000 seats, 2999 of them worked as designed.  (That
doesn't mean everyone was happy with every feature of the product.)  In one
case it was just impossible to get it running.  Everything possible, short
of reinstalling the OS (WinNT) was done.  I just have to many applications
on my PC and I don't trust a reinstall to try any further.

But, getting back to the point, since pine is free and nobody is forcing
anyone to use it it may be a better choice on your part to move back to
Quark Express.

Regards,
Ed