Subject: Re: help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: "Colin J. Raven" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:48:02 -0000

Since Robin is repairing his hard drive, permit me to offer one or two
observations on his behalf.
1. Hit "V" to view the message parts
2.Hit "S" to save (for example an image like a .gif) to your local drive
3. FTP the image down to your local machine using WS_FTP or some similar FTP
program (freeware)
4. Although admittedly a minor matter, it's a gracious practice to
capitalize the first letter of the first word in a sentence, and (usually)
the first person is represented with a capital "I" as opposed to "i"
5. Things are never quite as much of a catastrophe as you think when you
write an email. Give thought to what you are asking, and whom you are
asking. It's unwritten, but recipients tend not to appreciate jumbled syntax
and poorly composed email such as you sent below.
Colin

> some of my friends send me pictures or some text to my mailbox.
>When i try to viwe it, it tells me to to hit v then s. Well i can't find
>it and i don't know how to retreave it!!! When i type DIR when i log in,
>there it is...i can't get to it, is there any way to put it on a disk and
>open it later??/what can i DO????   Any help would be appreciated!!!
>
>

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From: Jennifer Call <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:19:31 -0700 (MST)

Colin, thank you for your help. it is nice that you take the time
to help me out. If i wanted your opinion on my grammer, i will tell it to
you. when dealing with people, be polite and try not to be a pompus
ass-hole. Did you read THAT clearly.

		Thankfully yours

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From: Malcolm Florence <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:29:58 +0200 (SAST)

> ass-hole. Did you read THAT clearly.

Jennifer ... you forgot the "u" in pompoUs.

Malcolm
([email-masked])

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From: Norbert Koch <[email-masked]>
Date: 14 Jan 1998 09:10:54 +0100

>>>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:19:31 -0700 (MST), Jennifer  Call <[email-masked]> said:

 JC> Colin, thank you for your help. it is nice that you take the time
 JC> to help me out. If i wanted your opinion on my grammer, i will
 JC> tell it to you. when dealing with people, be polite and try not
 JC> to be a pompus ass-hole. Did you read THAT clearly.

Now listen sweetie ...

we're here not at grammar school, sure enough, but you're hell of
lucky that you've received an answer at all. You don't know anything
about a thing called netiquette, do you - really? Have a look at your
f*cking subject ... what do we learn about your problem during the
study of it? That either the operator or the keyboard is broken -
probably both ...

So, just shut up and take the answer as given (in short, get lost).

Malcolm ... hmm, imo it's the 'o' that's lacking :-)

l8er, norbert.

-- 
Norbert Koch
a rattlesnake that doesn't bite teaches you nothing!

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From: Noone Special <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:32:30 -0500 (EST)

> ass-hole. Did you read THAT clearly.

It's called Nettiquette, hon.  One thing to make note of, though..
If after asking for help from technical people (that's us), they
actually answer your question, but raz you in addition answering your
question (whether the teasing is playful or not playful is irrelevant),
it is usually not a good idea to attack them, especially with foul
language on a list that is public access. (Little children could read it..
and we all know how impressionable little children are..)

The main reason for this, of course, is that technical people (that's us)
don't respond well to attacks.. they tend to blow up planets and such. (I
knew one fellow who blew up a planet just because someone said he had
funny ears...)

Another good reason would be all the flames you will recieve in
response. (This letter is technically a flame.. I would call it more of a
spark though, since it is rather mild).

Of course, a great reason not to be a
shmuck and "bite the hand that feeds you" even if it is a little rough, 
is that you probably won't get any help if you ever ask again (technical
people [that's us] usually have good memories).

Anyway, that was just my 2p

Clark

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From: Noone Special <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:46:33 -0500 (EST)

On 14 Jan 1998, Norbert Koch wrote:

> [FLAME DELETED]

Darn you, I was gonna point that out :P~

Reminds me of the time when I just graduated from HS and put "Honors
Curiculum" on a job application.  The only response I recieved (via US
Postal) was a note reading "Blah blah.. position has been filled.. blah..
P.S. - If you want to emphisize that you took advanced classes in High
School, you should probably spell 'Curriculum' correctly."  Of course,
being a cocky little @#$@, I HAD to respond with a letter stating "If you
want to criticize someone for spelling, you should be sure your own
spelling is perfect first.  The word 'emphasize' is not spelled
e-m-p-h-i-s-i-z-e."  I did not get a reply.

Pat (last submission to this thread)

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From: "K.M. Jeary" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:55:36 +0000 (GMT)

I normally ignore both breaches of netiquette and responses to same, since
life is _definitely_ too short. Although I agree with the previous sender 
[ie if you insult a list, you are unlikely to get help from it] I _would_
ask people generally to bear in mind that there are people with real
spelling/grammatical problems out there ie non-native English speakers and
people with dyslexia. 

I should know;- I live with a dyslexic, and have difficulty in communicating 
with his brother [a friend] since he is also dyslexic, and very reluctant
to send email to anybody, let alone lists or newsgroups because he gets
flamed on these points. I should also add that he is one of the most
competent people, technically, that I know. He has tried spell checkers
and various other IT solutions, and they have proved inadequate [words out
of context etc]. Speech to text may solve the problem in the near future,
but it ain't yet really adequate - especially if you have an English, not
an American, accent!

So, please, next time you feel inclined to hit somebody over the head
(metaphorically) for their spelling or their grammar, consider your
immediate reaction first:-)
 
Internet: [email-masked]       University Computing Service,
                         	        Computer Laboratory, Pembroke St,
Phone:    +01223 335039/335632          Cambridge CB2 3QG, England.

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From: "Adam H. Kerman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:34:28 -0600 (CST)

>From: Norbert Koch <[email-masked]>
>Date: 14 Jan 1998 09:10:54 +0100

>Malcolm ... hmm, imo it's the 'o' that's lacking :-)

I think Malcolm was making a pun.

---

From: "Adam H. Kerman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:40:42 -0600 (CST)

>From: Noone Special <[email-masked]>
>Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:32:30 -0500 (EST)

>>when dealing with people, be polite and try not to be a pompus ass-hole. Did
>>you read THAT clearly.

>Of course, a great reason not to be a shmuck and "bite the hand that feeds
>you" even if it is a little rough, is that you probably won't get any help if
>you ever ask again (technical people [that's us] usually have good memories).

I must strongly protest your use of the word "schmuck". For technical reasons,
girls can't be, er, don't have, er . . .

Well, the goyim shouldn't use Yiddish. It's dangerous.

---

From: Noone Special <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:45:54 -0500 (EST)

> girls can't be, er, don't have, er . . .
Face it, Adam.. the populous has hijacked many wonderful Yiddish words and
bastardized them to fit situations not appropriate for them.  Perhaps
Yiddish will become the national language?  Or maybe just the preferred
slang of the masses.

> Well, the goyim shouldn't [BLAH BLAH]
Hey..  "Go yim!".. sounds like something you would hear at a Japanese
baseball game. :P~

Pat

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From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:21:33 +0100 (CET)

Yo!

My harddisk is still falling apart, XEmacs is still dead, and I just found
that an MUA that doesn't sort mail and display threads *sucks*.  Did I
mention pico? No? Ok, pico *sucks*, too, but my .pinerc... Well...
.pinerc: I/O error

Anyway... I fired up my response to Jennifer's orginal message regardless
of the thread that had already developed, because the responses were
buried among 896 other messages. If, however, I had read the entire thread
beforehand, my reaction would have been entirely different... 

1. Jennifer: you're no fun, and you don't have a clue, either. Please get
   one from a local brainware store. Get yourself a spellchecker, too.

2. Adam et al.: I don't just flame people? I've been on this list for
   some time and I must say that it's getting less and less fun. There are
   almost no technical problems here anymore. Instead, we get newbies
   (which was alright before the People at the Pine Tower decided that
   this list be the forum for technical discussion). Some of these newbies
   just don't have a clue. Now, you might argue that this is what newbies
   are like. NOT! I still maintain that *every* newbie ought to have read
   the netiquette or at least the stuff her ISP had handed out to her. I
   may be old-fashioned, but I will *not* give up easily. If someone comes
   to this forum looking for help, I expect her to maintain a minimum
   standard of politeness. And I don't mean crawling, I mean:

	a) a sensible subject (Jennifer, "HELP!!!" *sucks*, ok?)
	b) a meaningful signature (.signature: I/O error ]:-< )
	c) consulting at the very least pine's online help, because it's
	   good and easy to understand
	d) due diligence in composing one's message - pine offers a spell
	   checker, and the reader can expect a minimum standard of
	   readability. Jennifer: it might take us (nota bene, we're just
  	   users, we're not the pine team, ok?) some time to figure out a
	   solution to your problem and type an answer. It's not asked too
	   much of you to spend a little time to proofread you message, is
	   it?

3. The people who offer free advice deserve a) respect, b) gratefulness,
   c) worship ... ooops! Ok, let's put it this way: when you get a
   helpful answer to your problem, don't start bitching because you get
   mildly toasted for your various violations of the netiquette. Noone
   told you that you suck, we only ridiculed your poor "grammer" and
   spelling. If you cannot live with that, get *commercial* support, ok?

++---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---++

As for life in general: my harddisk is still broken. This sucks. XEmacs
and mutt already went down the drain. For some reason, pine still lives.
Must be Murphy's. pine is not a good mailer for me. Not at all. It doesn't
sort mail, it doesn't do threading, it doesn't score (well, I do, but
that's not the question, is it?) and pico is an abomination. I hereby
request that pico be replaced with an editor that does propper wrapping
and indentation and which can be made aware of vi or Emacs keys. Did I
hear anyone say "joe"?

Hmmm... yeah... broken hdd's suck.  This might be the last message for two
days. Go visit my website while you can, I got this really cool picture of
me and my girlfriend up: <http://franck.pc.uni-koeln.de/~robin/>.

Jennifer, you might want to go here:
<http://franck.pc.uni-koeln.de/~robin/pine.html>. 

If anyone should feel the irrestible urge to send me a reply, my address
is: [email-masked]. 

I want my new 9GB drive - now!

Later,
Robin

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From: "Adam H. Kerman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:11:05 -0600 (CST)

>From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email-masked]>
>Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:21:33 +0100 (CET)

>2. Adam et al.: I don't just flame people?

I didn't say anything at all about you. My only contribution was on the schmuck
subthread.

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From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:20:36 +0100 (CET)

> I didn't say anything at all about you. My only contribution was on the schmuck

Subthread? What "thread"? Pine doesn't know threads. You're on the Pine
mailing list. Stay *on* topic, ok? Duhh... 

Robin "SCNR" Socha