Subject: Name Change form

From: Randi Bagley <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 15:43:00 E

If there is a form available for use by a self-representing citizen to   
change his/her name on their own, could you please point me in the right   
direction.  Lawyers quote very expensive rates for something that seems   
as if it should be "fill-in-the-blanks" easy.

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From: Edward M Greshko <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:44:41 +0800 (GMT)

> as if it should be "fill-in-the-blanks" easy.  

Please tell us why you send to this list?  We are trying to track down
how people come to the conclusion that your type of question should be
directed here.

Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

-- 
Edward M. Greshko                  Technical Manager, Electronic Commerce
                                   Control Data Asia/Pacific Region
PGPKey-ID:CA3AFA5D  Fingerprint: 2DE6 5527 144E D1BC  3C55 9FA5 518E 52EE

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From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email-masked]>
Date: 06 Jan 1998 23:58:43 +0100

>> "RB" == Randi Bagley <[email-masked]> writes:

RB> If there is a form available for use by a self-representing citizen
RB> to change his/her name on their own, could you please point me in the
RB> right direction.  Lawyers quote very expensive rates for something
RB> that seems as if it should be "fill-in-the-blanks" easy.

Dear Randi,

there are quite a few ways to get one's name changed. There is a hard
one, which would turn you into St. Bagley. It would involve stuff
that majorly sucks like cutting coats in two and stuff. Not cool.

Secondly, there is a way that would turn you into Mrs. Randi Cummins,
which would require marrying one of the lamest morons the world has
ever seen. If you're into this kind of guy, you should consider it an
option.

Right now, the most attractive solution for you in my mind would be to
keep posting to this list. It would certainly lead to a couple of
people helping you to change your name to "the late Ms Bagley". This
would not require any additional input on your behalf, but instead the
kind and generous application of fire-arms, baseball bats, chainsaws
and heavy artillery on ours.

If you don't like any of these choices:

[x] get a life
[x] get lost
[x] get professional help
[x] drop dead

Robin "you're posting to an email list dealing with an email program" Socha

-- 
Robin S. Socha M.A.
Political Science Dept., Bonn University 
<KRUZIFIX mode="head_down"> *S*A*T*A*N* ROOLEZ </KRUZIFIX> (D. Moehwald)

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From: Edward M Greshko <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:40:55 +0800 (GMT)

Robin,

Sorry, I zapped your entire message.  However, you always complain that
irrelevant stuff shouldn't be quoted.  :-)

I have an email contact with several individuals who have posted to
pine-info asking about "C hanging N ames".  It seems all of the ones
I've communicated with have performed searches at yahoo or other places
with phrases shown to produce results point to pine-info a previously
holding conversations about that subject.  

The folks performing the search just assume that their seach request will
return "valid" pointers and proceed to contact one of the indicated
sources.

The people doing the search tend to be "regular" people with little or 
no knowledge of the technology they are using, let alone its limitations.
They've never heard of "pine" and wouldn't have a reason to stop and
think about how "pine" can or cannot be connected with their request.

Like it or not, these people make up a growing percentage of the Internet
comunity.  So, you will be seeing more and more of this type of "error".

Yelling at them and making rude comments is not going to improve the
situation.  The only purpose it serves is to foster the image of the 
Internet as and unfriendly place.  

The situation is bound to get worse before it gets better.  But, by their
numbers, these folks make the Internet a cheaper place for all.  So, we
(and that *surely* includes me) should learn a bit of tolerance and try to
help rather than attack.

Regards,
Ed

---

From: "Adam H. Kerman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:48:56 -0600 (CST)

>From: Edward M Greshko <[email-masked]>
>Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:40:55 +0800 (GMT)

>holding conversations about that subject.

I think they are submitting questions to this list through their browser using
the mailto: URL in the archives. Unless Robin were to write to them directly,
her pithy observations are for our entertainment only.

The pine-info list is open to postings from non-subscribers.

There is a solution to this problem: Moderate questions posted by non-
subscribers. Move long-time contributors to a hidden, unmoderated list. The
first time a subscriber asks a question having to do with pine, move him to the
unmoderated list.

Irrelevant questions get relevant "best of Robin" responses.

---

From: Edward M Greshko <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:49:31 +0800 (GMT)

> her pithy observations are for our entertainment only.

You seem to be saying that being rude to someone is OK as long as they
can't hear you.  Or, maybe being rude to strangers is somehow humorous?

> first time a subscriber asks a question having to do with pine, move him to the

Offering to fill this role?
 
> Irrelevant questions get relevant "best of Robin" responses.

Some people are ignorant of the fact their questions are irrelevant.  That
means you have a license to snap at them?

Sorry for this off topic comment....now back to "pine" issues.

Regards,
Ed

---

From: "Adam H. Kerman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:02:46 -0600 (CST)

>Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:49:31 +0800 (GMT)

>can't hear you.

No, Ed. Rudeness requires that the target be aware of what was said.

>Or, maybe being rude to strangers is somehow humorous?

Unless Robin sent them private e-mail, she's can't be rude to someone who
isn't on the list. Whether or not YOU found it funny is another matter.

>>first time a subscriber asks a question having to do with pine, move him to
>>the unmoderated list.

>Offering to fill this role?

It's up to the list owner. But, I'd be willing to help.

>means you have a license to snap at them?

You volunteering to write the responses?

>Sorry for this off topic comment....now back to "pine" issues.

Actually, we get a significant amount of off-topic posting, and we should
attempt to solve the problem. I suggest that we continue this thread.

---

From: Julianne Kurtz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:18:11 -0500 (EST)

Why don't we send mail to yahoo explaining the situation and asking if
they could possibly remove that particular listing for us? Does anyone
know anyone over there?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Julianne Kurtz
[email-masked]

---

From: Drachen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:54:07 -0800 (PST)

A solution a little less drastic than full moderation would simply be to
not allow posts from people who haven't subscribed--it's a common enough
mailing list convention. Yes, it means that to ask a question, one must
figure out how to subscribe, but it's not that hard, and it would probably
filter out most of the accidental off topics. 

Vinnie

---

From: "Adam H. Kerman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:55:59 -0600 (CST)

>From: Julianne Kurtz <[email-masked]>
>Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:18:11 -0500 (EST)

>they could possibly remove that particular listing for us?

It should be fixed in the pine archives themselves. yahoo, and the other search
engines, wouldn't customize anything unless the university paid a fee.

---

From: "Robin S. Socha" <[email-masked]>
Date: 07 Jan 1998 19:20:26 +0100

>> "EMG" == Edward "Saint" Greshko <[email-masked]> writes:

ESG> I have an email contact with several individuals who have posted
ESG> to pine-info asking about "C hanging N ames".

Nice try, but a regexp search will catch those, too, Ed...

ESG> It seems all of the ones I've communicated with have performed
ESG> searches at yahoo or other places with phrases shown to produce
ESG> results point to pine-info a previously holding conversations
ESG> about that subject.

Oh... emmm... like "how to change the name in the from line"? Ray,
Annelise, are you there? You suck. You hear me?

[...]
ESG> The people doing the search tend to be "regular" people with
ESG> little or no knowledge of the technology they are using, let
ESG> alone its limitations.  They've never heard of "pine" and
ESG> wouldn't have a reason to stop and think about how "pine" can
ESG> or cannot be connected with their request.

Sure. We all know that, Ed. The problem is: would you like me to run
you over with a ten-ton truck, saying "sorry, but I didn't know the
technology"?

ESG> Like it or not, these people make up a growing percentage of the
ESG> Internet comunity.  So, you will be seeing more and more of this
ESG> type of "error".

The dawning of doom. But... *we* don't surrender. *We* don't take any
prisoners either. If *they* don't listen to reason, *we*'ll bring our
superior firepower to bear. 
while true ; echo "RTFM" | mail [email-masked] ; done

ESG> Yelling at them and making rude comments is not going to improve
ESG> the situation.

Noone's done that IIRC. We've all been very helpful and understanding. Face
it, Ed, she could be a saint now, if she only had listened...

ESG> The only purpose it serves is to foster the image of the Internet
ESG> as and unfriendly place.

Oh yeah? If somehow Microsoft decided to give away guns for free, so
that everyone could have even more information at their fingertips,
would you just sit there and say "thanks guys, great job"? The internet
is not an unfriendly place at all if you stick to the rules that guys
much cleverer than you and I made up years ago. If for whatever reason
*they* should decide that pouring their crap into *our* information
network would be a pretty KeWL idea... well, you know...

ESG> The situation is bound to get worse before it gets better.

It's certainly not going to get any better if the people who know what 
the internet can do just sit there silently waiting for the next
glorious toilet appliance from Redmond.

ESG> But, by their numbers, these folks make the Internet a cheaper
ESG> place for all.

May I politely interject here: this is about the dumbest thing I've
heard for years? The internet is not cheap, and if it is to work at
all, it will have to be made a *lot* more expensive. Just look at what
AOL, compusmurf and MSN have done to the net already. Hell, I got
about the fastest machine I ever had - but my download ratios plainly
suck. IRC is being taken over by child pornographers and KeWL WaREz
GuYZ. Even a.s.s. is full of commercial crap. And you want to tell
*me* that the net is getting cheaper?  I mean, yeah, it's being
cheapened and nastied, but it's not getting any cheaper... This
sucks. I hate those lusers.

ESG> So, we (and that *surely* includes me) should learn a bit of
ESG> tolerance and try to help rather than attack.

Appeasement? No, Sir, thank you, we've had that before, and it didn't
work then, either. I say, let's stand and fight. Ummm... and help,
where we can, too. }:->

Cheers,
Robin

-- 
Robin S. Socha
Political Science Dept., Bonn University 
	    Free Software: Contribute nothing, expect nothing