Subject: Download Files

From: Robert Sylvester <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:40:45 -0700 (PDT)

I'm using a dialup to access Pine 3.96 on a remote server and want to
download files stored in my home directory on the server to my machine.
When I [E] Export and then [^T] To Files via the Browser I can see the
files I want but I don't know how to select and/or download them.  I seem
to be stuck working with the email message I was looking at when I used
the export command.  Any help would be appreciated.

Robin Socha, it's obvious why you subscribe to this forum, if you didn't,
nobody would write to you.  Please don't bother replying, I don't need the
sarcasm.

Bob Sylvester

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From: "Robert J. Wilshe" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 23:38:46 -0500 (CDT)

Robert:

What you basically need is a bridge between your UNIX account on the
remote server, and your (home?) machine.  This bridge is called FTP (File
Transfer Protocol). FTP is basically used to move data between machines
that are connected via the Internet.  UNIX to UNIX, UNIX to PC, UNIX to
Mac, etc.... 

Assuming you're using your home machine, perhaps a PC, you can use your
web browser to go to the following page: 
	
http://www.ipswitch.com/Products/WS_FTP/pd_wsftp_eu_license.html

This is Ipswitch's download page for their "WS_FTP LE" FTP client for
Windows.  Their home page is www.ipswitch.com.  It's the most widely used
Windows FTP client (I think) and it's FREE to individuals!  

If you're using a Mac, I believe "Fetch" is the rumored best Mac FTP
client.  It's at: 

http://www.dartmouth.edu/pages/softdev/fetch.html

Either of these come with great documentation and help, and you'll be
downloading those files in no time.

Good luck,

\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\
robert		 chicago  illinois
joseph		 u       s       a
wilshe		 rwilshe @ ais.net
//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//

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From: Robin S Socha <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:15:57 +0200 (CEST)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

  >the export command.  Any help would be appreciated.

1) See to it, that you have some ftp protocol on both your machines. If you
don't have one, get it from e.g. www.yahoo.com.

2) Make up your mind if you want to Export files from pine or ftp files from
your remote computer. There's a slight difference involved, mainly
concerning flexibility and some nifty tech-specs you wouldn't be interested
in, judging from the attitude you display towards the end of your message.

3) Provided your remote host runs some flavr of u*ix, then to make the
Export function work the way you want, you have to do the following:

Goto M(ain), S(etup), C(onfig) and set the following commands:

	download-command
   
	This option affects the behavior of the Export command. It specifies
	a Unix program name, and any necessary command line arguments, that
	Pine can use to transfer the exported message to your personal
	computer's disk.

	download-command-prefix

	This option is used in conjunction with the Download-command option.
	It defines text to be written to the terminal emulator (via standard
	output) immediately prior to starting the download command. This is
	useful for integrated serial line file transfer agents that permit
	command passing (e.g., Kermit's APC method).

>  nobody would write to you. Please don't bother replying, I don't need the

Robert Sylvester, it's obvious why you subscribe to this forum, if you
didn't, nobody would read your pathetic whining. Please read the mails I've
written in response to EXACTLY the same question *quite* a few times before.

AND...

If you can stand sarcasm, you'll have to live with outright rudeness:
Robert Sylvester, you're a quarrelsome luser:

	grep -i download /READ_ME/Pine/* | less

... and I didn't even have to be rude to my computer to give me the
answer...

Later,
Robin

- - -- 
Robin S. Socha, M.A., Political Science Dept., Bonn University, Bonn
To get my pgp public key, send an e-mail with the subject "get pgp key"
GMC d++ s+:+ a- C++ UL++$>+++$ P+>++$ E>+ W- N+ o@ w--- M-- PS--- PE+++ Y+
PGP++>+++ t+() 5-- tv++(+) b+++ DI++ D+(++) G++>+++ e++>+++ h r++>+++ y+**

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From: [email-masked] (Tony Claudio)
Date: 14 May 1997 22:52:30 GMT

try ws_ftp or if you want to download your email then try eudora 3.0

-- 
Tony Claudio
Hughes
San Diego

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From: Christopher Hicks <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:06:23 -0400 (EDT)

On Wed, 14 May 1997, Robin S Socha wrote:
> >  Robin Socha, it's obvious why you subscribe to this forum, if you
> >  didn't, nobody would write to you. Please don't bother replying, I
> >  don't need the sarcasm.
> 
> didn't, nobody would read your pathetic whining. Please read the mails
> I've written in response to EXACTLY the same question *quite* a few
> times before. 

Robert: if you pay attention to this forum enough to know about Robin's
replies, then why did you open yourself up like that?  Sheesh.  He doesn't
reply to over half the stuff that appears here.  You just made yourself a
target.  All that people like Robin (and I) expect is for people to read
the manual (which is available on the web) and ask there local support.  A
lot of people do that.  Those that are too lazy deserve vituperation. 
Problems that aren't covered by the manual or the web or local people are
more than welcome here.  If people indicate they've /tried/ to read the
FAQ and the manual without luck we will probably be nice to them.  Even
people we vituperate get a useful answer.

Robin: aren't there some group therapy groups for people who can't cope
with sarcasm?  Maybe we should these people to alt.warez or some other
group therapy?  Sheesh.

</chris>

Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to buy Microsoft products.

---

From: Lea <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 10:23:12 -0600 (MDT)

On Thu, 15 May 1997, Christopher Hicks wrote:
<snip>
> with sarcasm?  Maybe we should these people to alt.warez or some other

One of these days when I have some time I'm going to make an
animated gif of a person carrying a sign that says "I CAN'T
RTFM!!"  
Robin and I have had off-list discussions about this before...the
line between lazy and newbie is sometimes pretty blurry.  Robin
leans to the former and I lean toward the latter :-)  
Maybe it's time to reassess what we can do to try and head off
some of the basic questions.  I don't read the newsgroup;  for
those that do, is the feed to the mailing list direct?  What if
we turned it off and let the two exist independently of each
other? That way, if a user first had to sub to the list in order
to post, they'd get a welcome message.  We could rethink the
welcome message and try to structure it such that the information
we want the new user to 'get' - look here for basics, look there
for tutorials, if any of the following are happening to you go
see your sysadmin, here's the basic info we need from you if
you're posting a problem to the list...stuff like that...would be
right there. We could include a warning or disclaimer or whatever
that the person MUST read and follow these list 'rules'.  Then
we could point people back at the 'rules' if they posted
something off or minor...
Anyhow, just random thoughts.  Feel free to rearrange as desired
to suit your personal decor.

Lea

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From: Robin S Socha <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:16:10 +0200 (CEST)

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[...]
  >with sarcasm? Maybe we should these people to alt.warez or some other

There's this *huge* therapy group... I think it's called reality or
something. People are different, and some will never learn. I wasn't being
sarcastic for the fun of it, but because I felt the original poster was
negligent in a way that was offensive to his readers. Finding the answer in
the on-line help wouldn't have been such a big deal, and formulating a more
specific question wouldn't have been, either.

However, gatewaying alt.flamewar into the list for a couple of hours might
be a refreshing experience for the more touchy people >;-> Hello, Mr
list-admin, do you copy?

Just kidding. It's all a matter of netiquette. I find it quite remarkable
that, during the last two weeks, I couldn't find a single new user who had
read some copy of it. I guess that explains a lot.

Later,
Robin

- --

---

From: Robin S Socha <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:10:21 +0200 (CEST)

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On Thu, 15 May 1997, Lea wrote:

  >One of these days when I have some time I'm going to make an animated gif
  >of a person carrying a sign that says "I CAN'T RTFM!!"

It already exists. It's a blueish sky with a flying banner saying DOS95 or
something.

  >Robin and I have had off-list discussions about this before...the line
  >between lazy and newbie is sometimes pretty blurry. Robin leans to the
  >former and I lean toward the latter :-)

Which is perfectly alright imao. Nobody can be expected to know everything
about all u*ix programs, and I personally find myself stuck at least 4-5
times a day. Reading the fine manual doesn't always help either, so making a
question public is a) an intelligent thing to do, b) an honour for the
programmer, because he can see that people are pushing his program to the
limits, and c) an incentive for all readers to learn more about certain
nifty tex-spex. However, an rtfm-bait question is a nuissance, and an insult
to the intellect of those who have to suffer it.

In the case of the original poster, I saw a clear-cut case of "why didn't
those programmers make everything idiot-proof?", so I added a little
incentive for him to readjust his expectations and reevaluate his
cooperativeness at once. The internet is a two-sided "thing" in which one
has to give back what on receives. The original post seemed to be a case of
mere taking ("Where's the button I need to press for my specific needs?"),
so ...

  >Maybe it's time to reassess what we can do to try and head off some of
  >the basic questions. I don't read the newsgroup; for those that do, is
  >the feed to the mailing list direct? What if we turned it off and let the
  >two exist independently of each other?

Not good. Sending the faq with every subscription would be a nice thing,
though, because then we could flame every luser to hell in pursuit of a
righteous cause. Hehehe...

  >That way, if a user first had to sub to the list in order to post, they'd
  >get a welcome message. We could rethink the welcome message and try to
  >structure it such that the information we want the new user to 'get' -
  >look here for basics, look there for tutorials, if any of the following
  >are happening to you go see your sysadmin, here's the basic info we need
  >from you if you're posting a problem to the list...stuff like
  >that...would be right there.

No necessary. Pine has everything on board. The help is more than exhaustive
for the vast majority of users. Even the command in question in the original
post was in it. Nuff said. Some people just can't read --- they need others
to spread the Holy Word.  
  
  >We could include a warning or disclaimer or whatever that the person MUST
  >read and follow these list 'rules'. Then we could point people back at
  >the 'rules' if they posted something off or minor...

See above. Besides, most users aren't stupid, they're simply lost.
Especially for non-natives (both of English and Computerese), *putting* the
question is the hardest part. Rethink all the "how can I make a reply-to
appear"--questions of the last days. Without grep, you're pretty stuck
sometimes, and even that doesn't cover all problems. How about "aggregate
commands"? Probably the most stupid term a German could think of. I couldn't
find it but indirectly through an answer on the list.

Blablabla... 

Ahh, yes, and there's this, too: Your page is on the internet. It's all
people would need. They don't find it, either because they cannot or they
don't want to. Laziness is a common factor in interpersonal exchange, and on
the internet, it's even worse many times. Guess we'll have to live with it,
won't we?

Heavens, what a day!

Robin  

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