Subject: Re: Hi. Pine 3.95 is irritating

From: Paul O Bartlett <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:38:35 -0500

On 10 Feb 1997, Andrew Vardy wrote:

> I'd like to say that since using 3.95 over 3.91, I find one thing very
> bothersome.
[At top or bottom of index screen, cannot cursor up or down to go to
[next screen; Pine now scrolls by a single line instead of a whole
[screen.]

    Granted, to some extent this may be a matter of personal taste and
operating style, but I also find this change in Pine to be thoroughly
obnoxious.  Particularly because of the way I handle newsgroups, the
new style in Pine is just plain clumsy.  Having a configuration option
as to which way you want Pine to work would be far, far better.  (They
have the code to do it both ways because they have _done_ it both
ways.)  After all, one may now specify the screen overlap in the viewer.

Paul                             <[email-masked]>
----------------------------------------------------------
Paul O. Bartlett, P.O. Box 857, Vienna, VA 22183-0857, USA
Finger, keyserver, or WWW for PGP 2.6.2 public key 
Home Page:  http://www.access.digex.net/~pobart

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From: [email-masked]
Date: 11 Feb 1997 11:16:48 EST

[This message has also been posted to Usenet]

>[At top or bottom of index screen, cannot cursor up or down to go to [next
>screen; Pine now scrolls by a single line instead of a whole [screen.]

>obnoxious.  

Let me add my vote here too :-) I too  find this feature/bug totally
irritating. 

I frequently use Pine by dialing up to my Unix box, and running a
VT100/Telnet emulator, which you can imagine is quite slow. And mind you, I
have to be *very* careful about hitting keys when I am on a modem connection
because the screen updates lag my typing *by far* !

To get around this, I do the following: I 'D'elete the last message in the
folder index and Lo and Behold, Pine 3.95 now scrolls the entire screen ! Now
I <Up> arrow to the previous message and 'U'ndelete it! All this stupid motion
just to scroll the screen. I wish there were a option to allow us to scroll to
next/previouspage when the cursor down/up beyond the last/first message!

Mark, Terry, Dave..,.. please accomodate us..

Thanks,
--Vikas

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From: Mike Brudenell <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:20:19 +0000 (GMT)

> next/previouspage when the cursor down/up beyond the last/first message!

Ummm....  Am I missing something here?  Wouldn't it just be easier to use
the "scroll by a screenful" commands? ...

	Space Bar	... scroll forward a screenful
	-		... scroll back a screenful

These keys can be used in most places (Index screen, when reading a
message, Setup Configuration screen, etc).

In case some people don't know, there's also a couple of commands for
going straight to the top or bottom of a message/index screen/etc:

	^W ^Y		... Go to first line
	^W ^V		... Go to last line

Given the above commands the "drive the cursor into the margin to give
small amounts of scrolling" is a quite useful addition, rather just
duplicating the effect of the above keystrokes (at least, I think so:-)

Cheers,

-- 
Mike Brudenell                                         <[email-masked]>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York, YO1 5DD, UK
Tel: +44-1904-433811  FAX: +44-1904-433740  http://www.york.ac.uk/~pmb1/

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:56:44 -0500 (EST)

On Tue, 11 Feb 1997, Mike Brudenell wrote:

> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:20:19 +0000 (GMT)
> From: Mike Brudenell <[email-masked]>
> Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: Hi.  Pine 3.95 is irritating

> > folder index and Lo and Behold, Pine 3.95 now scrolls the entire screen !
> > Now I <Up> arrow to the previous message and 'U'ndelete it! All this
> > stupid motion just to scroll the screen. I wish there were a option to
> > allow us to scroll to next/previouspage when the cursor down/up beyond the
> > last/first message!

> 	-		... scroll back a screenful

Yes.. I know these commands. The thing is the following: When I do <Space> at
the last message on a given screen, it takes me to the next message *and*
scrolls the screen down 1 screenful. So far so good, but now (cursor is on top
of screen) when I do a '-', it scrolls back 1 screen but also the first
message in the previous screen is made the current message and not the message
prior to the earlier message which the <Up> cursor key would do. 

I hope I made sense :-) But as I said, it is a minor irritation and one that I
can live with. I just dont get why doing 'D'elete on the last message should
scroll forward one but <Down> will not ! A tad inconsistent, wouldnt you say?

Regards,
--Vikas

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From: Terry Gray <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:53:49 -0800 (PST)

> Let me add my vote here too :-) I too  find this feature/bug totally

I'm confused.  Has no one noticed that if you use "N" and "P" to navigate,
you (still) get the old behavior, and only if you use "^N" and "^P" or
the arrow keys do you get the "new" behavior?  In other words, now you
have a choice...  So what am I missing?

> Mark, Terry, Dave..,.. please accomodate us..

Actually, neither Mark, Terry, nor David are the actual Pine authors --but
we are all friends of the actual Pine authors (who are either too smart or
too busy working on the next release to be sending much pine-info mail! :)

-teg

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:20:25 -0500 (EST)

> > [This message has also been posted to Usenet] On Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:38:35
> > -0500, Paul O Bartlett <[email-masked]> wrote:

> have a choice...  So what am I missing?

Oops! Major egg-on-face here. Terry.. you are right. I just never tried N or
P before even though it is right in front of my eyes. I just used the arrow
keys.. Sorry for complaining before doing everything I could. I dont usually
do this.

Apologies again,

Regards,
--Vikas

> we are all friends of the actual Pine authors.

and the actual Pine authors are.....? :-)

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From: Terry Gray <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:21:33 -0800 (PST)

> and the actual Pine authors are.....? :-)

It turns out that this information is a carefully-guarded state secret... 
unless you happen to type "R" on the Main Menu and read the credits. :) 

-teg

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From: Mike Brudenell <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 11:43:01 +0000 (GMT)

> keys.. Sorry for complaining before doing everything I could. I dont usually

Perhaps I'd better confess that I've never noticed this difference either!
I've always assumed that Cursor Up/Down were synonymous with P/N.  Now it
has been pointed out, however, it becomes obvious (as most things do).
Cursor Up/Down are actually synonymous with ^P/^N, not P/N.

By the way, Vikas, are you familiar with the "Jump" command and (more
usefully) its shortcut? ...

If you want to leap to a particular message in the Index screen (or even
when reading a message) you can type "J" followed by the message number.
The shortcut (available if you have set the "enable-jump-shortcut"
setting) lets you omit the initial "J" and just type the message number.

This can be handy for quickly moving the highlight from, say, a message at
the top of the screen in the Index listing to one at the bottom.

[Apologies if you already knew of this!  (However some others may not, I
guess.)]

Cheers,

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From: MARCUS25 <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 15:00:40 -0500

to go forward a page in the index hit the space bar.  to go back a page
hit dash marcus  this si also true in the index

On 10 Feb 1997, Andrew Vardy wrote:

> bothersome.  When the cursor is at the top or bottom of the index screen,
> I can no longer cursor up or down to go to the next or previous page.
> 
> Instead Pine insists on scrolling ONE more line on screen.  Why does it do
> this silly thing?
> 
> It's was much nicer before when cursoring up would proceed to the previous
> page of the index.
> 
> 
> 
>