Subject: Re: Best editors

From: Nancy McGough <[email-masked]>
Date: 8 Jan 1997 11:37:51 -0500

[email-masked] (Ken W) writes:
>: * autowrap and ability to set wrap margin; also something 
>:   equivalent to Pico's ^j which allows you to "justify" a
>:   paragraph that has become a mess due to massive editing.
>
>: * versions that run on Win 3.1, Win 95, and Unix (text, not 
>:   necessarily X-Windows)
>
>: * ability to see line numbers (e.g. vi's `:set nu')
>
>: * ability to see tabs and end of lines (e.g. vi's `:set list')
>
>: * vi keystroke emulation
>
>Uhhh....  How about vi? :)  The thing above that I believe that vi can't do is
>the justification that you are talking about with pico, but I believe that
>you can use some sort of script to do that for you, probably with either
>sh or perl.  Speaking of which, anyone know of such a script?

A couple people sent me mail suggesting vim, which has a built-in
paragraph-justify thing.  I'll try it but I'm wondering how GUI
the Windows 3.x and 95 versions are - can you cut and paste and
use the scroll bar?  Also, what I really want is something that
has all the above features that normal people (non-vi people)
can use.  I help a lot of people with Net stuff and I need to
find a good text editor to recommend to them that *I CAN ALSO
USE* (that's why the vi emulation would be nice).  Right now
I set people up with pico but then when I try to do something
for them,  I usually create a mess because I start typing 
things like `ESCAPE jjj' to move around.

Thanks,
Nancy

PS - Where can I get the Win 3.1 and Win 95 versions of vim?
-- 
<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<*<
            @..@            Nancy McGough           /\_/\
           (----)           Infinite Ink           ( o.o )
          ( >__< )    http://www.jazzie.com/ii/     > ~ <

---

From: Eric Wood <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:05:43 -0500

Marco De la Cruz wrote:
> How 'bout Emacs?

I haven't used emacs but I would like someone to compare what I compared
with emacs.

-Eric Wood

---

From: glotov@knot (Alex Glotov)
Date: 8 Jan 1997 14:46:48 GMT

Nancy McGough ([email-masked]) wrote: 
>Eric Wood <[email-masked]> writes:
>>(in order or 1=best, 5=worst):
>>
>>1) WoPrEs 2.05.  
>>2) NE - Nice Editor 1.14.
>>3) PICO - Pine's editor
>>4) vi - I won't even list the pros and cons.....

>Thanks for the summary Eric.  I'm also interested in good text
>editors and am especially interested the following features:

>* autowrap and ability to set wrap margin; also something 
>  equivalent to Pico's ^j which allows you to "justify" a
>  paragraph that has become a mess due to massive editing.

>* versions that run on Win 3.1, Win 95, and Unix (text, not 
>  necessarily X-Windows)

>* ability to see line numbers (e.g. vi's `:set nu')

>* ability to see tabs and end of lines (e.g. vi's `:set list')

>* vi keystroke emulation

>Nancy

you said it: vi.

---

From: Marco De la Cruz <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:25:39 GMT

I made a little comparison between a few text editors
I had around. It's kind of old, but it may be of use.
I'm not a professional reviewer or anything, but I
like fiddling with software, and I had some time on
my hands...

There are notable exceptions, like vi (which I didn't
have handy, and which I never could really learn), and
Emacs (which can probably do _anything_, the tradeoff
being its large footprint and steep learning curve).

I apologize if there are any mistakes!!!

BTW, I use NotGNU. Any bias is solely my subconscious'
fault (^-^).

-----------------------------------------------------

The editors:

PFE: http://www.lancs.ac.uk/people/cpaap/pfe/
notGNU: ftp.simtel.net under /pub/simtelnet/win95/editor/w9not19.zip
TextPad: http://www.textpad.com/
UltraEdit: http://www.idmcomp.com/
Editeur: http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/winnt/txtutil/ed22fn.zip
GWD: http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/win95/txtutil/gte32r15.zip

BTW, Nancy, vim is also at simtel, right above notGNU (^-^)

All tested under NT 3.51

*** The text editors ***

               PFE        notGNU      TextPad     Editeur   UltraEdit   GWD

*** Characteristics ***

Version      0.06.002      1.9          2.1          2.2       4.10a    1.2

Size[kB]       1080        525         1700[a]      425[a]     1150     1270

[a] Does not include spell checker

Customizable
key mapping      Yes        Yes          No          No        No       Yes

Free             Yes        Yes          No[a]       No[b]     No[c]    No[d]

[a] US$27-35
[b] FF120
[c] US$30
[d] US$20

               PFE        notGNU      TextPad     Editeur   UltraEdit   GWD

*** Buffer handling ***

Can load
a 6Mb file       Yes        Yes          Yes         Yes       Yes      Yes

Can handle
long filenames   Yes        Yes          Yes         Yes       Yes      Yes

Can handle
UNIX/DOS
conversions      Yes        Yes          Yes         Yes       Yes      Yes

Binary
editor           No         No           No[a]       No        Yes      No

[a] Has an hex viewer

Multiple
windows          Yes        No[a]        Yes         Yes       Yes      Yes
  (#)           (>2)                    (>2)        (>2)       (>2)     (>2)

[a] Can split a window to edit multiple files (>2)

Synchronized
  editing        Yes        Yes          Yes         No        Yes      No
(# of views)     (>2)       (>2)         (2)                   (2)

C mode           Yes        No[a]        Yes         No        No[b]    No[b]

[a] "cmode" shows matching parenthesis
[b] Syntax highlighting can be used to display special words
    in different colours

Show
linenumbers      Yes        No[a]       No[a]        No[a]     No[a]    No[a]

[a] Shows cursor position in status bar

               PFE        notGNU      TextPad     Editeur   UltraEdit   GWD

*** Editing ***

Undo             Yes        Yes         Yes          Yes       Yes      Yes
(#)             (>2)       (>2)         (>2)         (>2)      (>2)     (>2)

Redo             No         No          Yes          Yes       Yes      Yes
(#)                                     (>2)         (>2)      (>2)     (>2)

Search/
replace          Yes        Yes         Yes          Yes       Yes      Yes
(regular
expressions)     (No)      (Yes)       (Yes)        (No)[a]    Yes      Yes

[a] Can search for some special characters

Rectangle
(block/column)
functions        No         Yes         Yes          Yes[a]    Yes      Yes

[a] Can also select entire columns at once

Line wrap        Yes        Yes         Yes          Yes       Yes      Yes

Drag'n'drop
text             Yes        No          Yes          No        No       No

Automatic line
indentation      Yes        Yes         Yes          Yes       Yes      Yes

Bracket
matching         Yes        Yes         Yes          No        Yes      Yes

Sorting          No         Yes[a]      Yes          Yes       Yes      Yes

[a] Ascending only

Prints files     Yes        Yes         Yes          Yes       Yes      Yes

Bookmarks        No         Yes         Yes          No        Yes      Yes

Templates        Yes        No          No           No        Yes      No

Macros           Yes        Yes         Yes          Yes       Yes      Yes
(#)              (1)        (>2)        (>2)         (?)       (>2)     (>2)
Can be saved?    No         Yes         Yes          Yes       Yes      Yes

Word count        ?         Yes         Yes           ?        No       Yes
(In region)                (Yes)        (No)                  (No)      (No)

               PFE        notGNU      TextPad     Editeur   UltraEdit   GWD

*** File handling ***

Built in
file manager     No[a]      Yes          Yes         No[b]     No[c]    No[b]

[a] Can call file manager from menu
[b] "Tools" option can call file manager
[c] Can call file manager from "Run Windows Program..."

Compare files    No         No           Yes         No        No       No

Search for 
text in
unopened files   No         No[a]        Yes         No        Yes      Yes

[a] Can call egrep

               PFE        notGNU      TextPad     Editeur   UltraEdit   GWD

*** Shell interaction ***

Can call
compiler         Yes        Yes          Yes         No?       Yes      Yes

Can launch
Dos/Windows
programs         Yes        Yes          Yes         Yes       Yes      Yes

               PFE        notGNU      TextPad     Editeur   UltraEdit   GWD

*** Other ***

Spell checker    No         No           Yes         Yes[a]    Yes      No[b]

[a] Only 16-bit version
[b] Has an autocorrect feature

? = I'm not sure...

-- 
_________________________________
[email-masked]
Gunnm: Broken Angel
http://128.100.80.13/marco/alita.html

---

From: Marco De la Cruz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:02:35 GMT

Eric Wood <[email-masked]> writes:

> Gottcha!  When I mean best editor I mean bells and whistles!
[snip!]

How 'bout Emacs?

---

From: [email-masked] (Sven Guckes)
Date: 16 Jan 1997 14:35:47 GMT

[email-masked] (Nancy McGough):
> A couple people sent me mail suggesting vim,
> which has a built-in paragraph-justify thing.

Can't live without it anymore!

	Examples:
	Q)	Reformat unto end-of-sentence
	Qp	Reformat current paragraph
	QG	Reformat until end-of-buffer
	Q'a	Reformat unto line marked with 'a'

Note:  Reformatting with Q preserves "quoted text" - even with multiple quotes:

	> > > This
	> > > is an
	> > > example
	> > This is another
	> > example
	> One more
	> time
	
Use "Qp" on this paragraph and it turns into this:

	> > > This is an example
	> > This is another example
	> One more time
	
Quote prefixes can be customized via the variables "comments".  Example:

	set comments=n:>,n:)

This defines the characters > and ) for "nested comments",
ie the can be a "prefix".  Example:

	> This
	> is an
	> example
	: This is another
	: example

Using "Qp" turns this into:

	> This is an example
	: This is another example

Cool, eh?  :-)

> I'll try it but I'm wondering how GUI the Windows 3.x and 95
> versions are - can you cut and paste and use the scroll bar?

I avoid Windows, so I don't know.  But Mr VimWin should know:

	George V. Reilly <[email-masked]>
	http://www.halcyon.com/gvr/vim.html

> Also, what I really want is something that has all the
> above features that normal people (non-vi people) can use.

Anyone using vi is not considered normal by non-vi people.  ;-)

> Right now I set people up with pico but then when I try to do something for
> them, I usually create a mess because I start typing things like `ESC jjj'
> to move around.

Well, maybe you need pico keys for movement in vim?  Here they are:

	key	keyword		jump to ...	vim mapping (command mode)

	^A	anfang		begin-of-line	:nmap <C-A> 0
	^E	end		  end-of-line	:nmap <C-E> $

	^B	back		previous-char	:nmap <C-B> h
	^F	forward	    	    next-char	:nmap <C-F> l

	^N	next		    next-line	:nmap <C-N> j
	^P	previous	previous-line	:nmap <C-P> k

	^V	vertical	down-screen	:nmap <C-V> <C-D>
	^Y	y-up ;-)	  up-screen	:nmap <C-Y> <C-U>

Note:
You can copy and paste these commands right from the screen into your vimrc.

Of course you can also map these commands for insert mode preceding each
definition by the command ^O which jumps into command mode for one command
then returning to insert mode.  The downside of this is that you will thus
lose all the extra commands that are already mapped to these keys by default.

Sven

-- 
Sven [email-masked] - VIM ("Vi IMproved")  | Available for Amiga,
VIM Latest version : VIM 4.5 - released on 961008    | Atari, DOS, Macintosh,
VIM Pages: http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~guckes/vim/ | OS/2, UNIX, VAX, VMS,
VIM FAQ:   http://www.grafnetix.com/~laurent/vim     | Windows NT, Windows 95.