Subject: Configuration Problem?

From: jbenny <[email-masked]>
Date: 25 Sep 1996 00:55:04 -0700

TIA for any assistance that can be provided.  Not a big problem, but
annoying and makes me feel and look like the newbie that I am.

Because I like Pine and learned how to do e-mail initially with Pine, I
also use it for news groups.  This situation began with version 3.94 and
continues into version 3.95.  I think it is a configuration situation, but
my system admin says it is a "feature" that is built into Pine.

When I post to a newsgroup, in the index of the newsgroup, instead of
showing my name, the line "To:" appears.  How can I correct this?

I have read the faq, read everything that seems relevant in the Pine
homepage, but I can't figure it out.

Again, thanks for any help.

============================================================================= 
[email-masked]
=============================================================================

---

From: Ed Greshko <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:28:57 +0800 (GMT)

> showing my name, the line "To:" appears.  How can I correct this?

	There is *nothing* to correct.  This question pops up many
times a week.  It leads one to wonder if anyone actually reads the
replies, etc.....  

	Anyway, if you go to the I(ndex) screen and type ?(help) you
can read a bit and find...

  SENDER: The name or email address of the sender.  If you are the sender,
then the first recipient's name is shown here.  In Newsgroups, if you are
the sender and there are no email recipients, the newsgroup name will be
listed. 
 
	So, it is a feature.....   *Your* pineine knows who you
are....you know who you are (we hope.... ).  So, why display that a
message was sent by you when you know your sent it???

	*MY* pine doesn't know who you are.....so *MY* pine displays
your name.

	OK???

-- 
Edward M. Greshko                       Technical Manager, Electronic Commerce
                                        Control Data Asia/Pacific Region
Voice: +886-2-715-2222 x287             6/F, 131 Nanking East Road, Section 3
FAX  : +886-2-712-9197                  Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C

---

From: jbenny <[email-masked]>
Date: 25 Sep 1996 01:54:03 -0700

> times a week.  It leads one to wonder if anyone actually reads the

I had not yet read all the posts in this news group.  Sorry!

> the sender and there are no email recipients, the newsgroup name will be

I had done this.  Reading the help file does not explain why we do not see
our name in the index file nor is the change mentioned in any of the
update files.  Perhaps you have extraordinary abilities that I don't and
therefore you assume the righteousness to insult me and others.  FWIW, I
think it was a stupid change.  I like features that are wysiwyg, goodness
knows there are enough things that can go wrong in using the internet and
newsgroups that we should be able to see what the rest of the world is
seeing.  There didn't seem to be a problem prior to version 3.94, so why
the change?

> message was sent by you when you know your sent it???

Because I expect, and would much prefer, that it display in the same
manner that the other messages are displayed

> 	*MY* pine doesn't know who you are.....so *MY* pine displays

It is ok that it displays properly for you, but it is not ok that it
doesn't display in the same format for me.

[snip sig lines]

---

From: Mike Brudenell <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:03:09 +0100 (BST)

[Tries to pour some oil on troubled waters...]

On 25 Sep 1996, jbenny wrote:

> update files.

Ummm... agreed that the built-in help doesn't explain the "Why?" of this
feature, but you must admit that it does say "What" is done.

As for why it doesn't explain the "Why?"... well I guess they didn't feel
the need; many, many pieces of documentation explain the "what" but rarely
the "why".

Perhaps the Pine Team could consider including a bit of "why" about this
feature in the built-in help given how many times the question gets asked.

> Perhaps you have extraordinary abilities that I don't and
> therefore you assume the righteousness to insult me and others.

Hmmm... I don't think they feel they have extraordinary abilities.
Perhaps, like myself at times, they are just fed up with having this
question asked and answered half a dozen times or so each week.

Are you (jbenny) new to this mailing list/newsgroup?  If so then there is
perhaps reason for you to ask your question (although Netiquette suggests
reading past articles and "lurking" for a while before starting to post
your own).  If you have been reading the group for a while then I'm
surprised you haven't noticed how often this question goes by :-}

> FWIW, I
> think it was a stupid change.

It depends what you mean by "change" here... Pine has always -- as far as
I recall -- behaved in this way.

> I like features that are wysiwyg, goodness

Sorry to disagree with you but Pine 3.91 certainly behaves in this way (I
have just checked) and, if memory serves, versions all the way back to
3.87 (the version at which I think I first encountered Pine) did likewise.

Perhaps you've only just started using Usenet News or saving outgoing
messages and so have just noticed the effect?

> manner that the other messages are displayed

OK... the current version of Pine (3.95) allows you to change this.  (Note
that this is new to 3.95 -- or possibly slightly earlier; it was
definitely missing in 3.91)

At the Main Menu type "S" (Setup) then "C" (Configuration) and look
through the options for "index-format".  Put your cursor on this entry and
type "?" to read the built-in help about it.

Assuming you are otherwise happy with the layout of the Index screen you
can change things to as you want them by noting the default value used:

    index-format=STATUS MSGNO DATE FROMORTO(33%) SIZE SUBJECT(67%)

and setting a value based very closely on this:

    index-format=STATUS MSGNO DATE FROM(33%) SIZE SUBJECT(67%)

(Note the change of FROMORTO to become FROM.)

So far from the Pine Team introducing a change which you hate, the only
change the've actually made is to let you _avoid_ the display you despise
so much :-)

Cheers,

-- 
Mike Brudenell                                         <[email-masked]>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York, YO1 5DD, UK
Tel: +44-1904-433811  FAX: +44-1904-433740  http://www.york.ac.uk/~pmb1/

---

From: Ed Greshko <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:21:33 +0800 (GMT)

> I had not yet read all the posts in this news group.  Sorry!

	No need to be sorry.  Just follow proper netiquette, which is
to read the past few weeks of messages before posting.  In the past
10 days this same question has been asked/answered 5X.

> therefore you assume the righteousness to insult me and others.

	No desire to "insult" but I'm not sure how clearer the extraction
from the help menu could be?  It states: "If you are the sender, then the
first recipient's name is shown here".  That's what you are seeing....
right?

> seeing.  There didn't seem to be a problem prior to version 3.94, so why

	The "change" only affects the I(ndex) screen.  If you type
v(iew) you will see what everyone in the rest of the world sees.

> manner that the other messages are displayed

	One reason is that you can get many messages that start out
like this:

Subject: Re: Bug in pine 3.95

	(Well.....hopefully not too many with that subject :-) )

	If I've a visual indication that I've sent this message...I
can skip over it.  

> doesn't display in the same format for me.

	Oh, well.  Suspect you can't please all of the people all of
the time.

---

From: jbenny <[email-masked]>
Date: 25 Sep 1996 04:44:01 -0700

> feature, but you must admit that it does say "What" is done.

No, I don't believe it does explain what is done to make the index file
look differently in the news groups index.

> the need; many, many pieces of documentation explain the "what" but rarely

Well, again, it doesn't explain the "what" or the "why" as it pertains to
news groups.  It does explain the "what" in the index folders that are
personal to me, but not the news groups. 
 
> feature in the built-in help given how many times the question gets asked.

Yes, especially since this only began in version 3.94 and did not occur in
the previous version that I and others had been using.

It would also be helpful if the information appeared in the faq, which it
does not.

> question asked and answered half a dozen times or so each week.

Then maybe it shouldn't have been changed?

> Are you (jbenny) new to this mailing list/newsgroup?

No, but I have not subscribed for several months as Pine was working so
smoothly, I didn't really have a need to subscribe 'til now.

> If so then there is
> your own).

True, enough.  However, one would expect to find the answer in the faq or
somewhere at the Pine homepage site.  While there is an abundance of
wonderful information there, the situation at hand is not mentioned at
all.

> If you have been reading the group for a while then I'm

> I recall -- behaved in this way.

In the 2 years that I have been using Pine to read newsgroups and do
e-mail, Pine has NOT behaved this way in the index of newsgroups.  It is
an unexpected behavior for me and apparently for others.

> 3.87 (the version at which I think I first encountered Pine) did likewise.

We must be talking about two different things, because this is just not
the case.  I don't know what version I started with, but it was prior to
version 3.93.  Using Pine as a news reader both at the university as well
as my commercial account,  I can assure you that in the index of the news
groups, my name appeared as did everyone else's name.  If Pine had always
appeared with a "To:" line in the newsgroup index, then no one would
question it.  If we were all new to using Pine, then we wouldn't know that
it is a change.

> messages and so have just noticed the effect?

Yet another insult to our intelligence.  Perhaps we aren't talking about
the same things.  Do you use Pine as a news reader.  You are correct in
that Pine did appear in the index of "sent-mail" this way, but not in the
index of the news group.

> (Note the change of FROMORTO to become FROM.)

I will attempt your suggested change and see what happens.  I appreciate
the valuable time you took to answer my inquiry.

> change the've actually made is to let you _avoid_ the display you despise

I don't "hate" it, but it just looks stupid.  Yes, I know who wrote the
message, and I know where it was posted to, but I would much prefer that
the index of the newsgroup appear as it did before.
 
[snip sig]

---

From: [email-masked] (Tim Mooney)
Date: 29 Sep 1996 01:29:01 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>,
> times a week.  It leads one to wonder if anyone actually reads the

It also leads one to wonder if it was such a good feature to add in the
first place.  Maybe it should have been a selectable option, rather than
the default.

Tim
-- 
Tim Mooney                              [email-masked]
Information Technology Services         (701) 231-1076 (Voice)
Room 242-J1, IACC Bldg.                 (701) 231-8541 (FAX)
North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105

---

From: [email-masked] (Orjan Johansen)
Date: 29 Sep 1996 14:56:52 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>first place.  Maybe it should have been a selectable option, rather than

This seems to have appeared at the same time as the index-format
option appeared.

My guess is, before that there was different behavior in newsgroups
and mail, or possibly different behavior in the sent-mail folder
versus other folders. (At least I seem to recall seeing To: at certain
places in the old days.) Certainly, it makes sense to have the
sent-mail folder using To:, since there every message is from
yourself, while it does not really make sense to use To: in newsgroups.

But since the index-format option was added, every folder has to behave
the same way (otherwise, the option would have to be split or made
more complicated), and they chose the only option which does not lose
information compared to the old system.

Greetings,
Ørjan.