Subject: enable-8bit-esmtp-negotiation

From: paul harmeier <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:35:09 -0400 (EDT)

When I congigure Pine to "enable-8bit-esmtp-negotiation" I am able to send
pictures in JPG format from my IBM-compatible computer to a friend with a
MAC computer, who then uses JPEGVIEW to look at the pictures. I believe
this configuration turns off the MIME encoding of the attached pictures
that the MAC could not decode. I would appreciate a description of what is
going on.

If the friend with the MAC computer sent a picture to me, should I have
the configuration set at "enable-8bit-esmtp-negotiation" to keep from
MIME-decoding something that has not been MIME-encoded? Again, I would
appreciate a description of what is happening.

Best regards,

Paul Harmeier

---

From: Doug Piercy <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:13:29 -0700

> appreciate a description of what is happening.

Standard SMTP only supports 7bit characters. That is, ASCII 0-127. This
is because SMTP was originally written to only support plain text
messages.
ESMTP supports 8bit encoding (ASCII 0-255), but not all SMTP servers
support this feature and most people you send to will not be able to
decode the message, if they receive it at all.  8bit encoding is
strongly discouraged on the internet, with MIME being the prefered
method.

MIME encoding converts binary data (like images) into plain text. Each
enclosure or attachment is converted into readable text (usually base64)
and then transmitted as part of the message.  By enabling 8bit ESMTP,
you are disabling the encoding and storing the binary image directly in
the message.  I doubt if it's being MIME encoded when you do this.

You don't need to worry about the format he uses to send you the image.
It won't be MIME decoded unless the message specifically says it is MIME
encoded.

A better solution is for your friend using the MAC to find another email
program that supports MIME, like Netscape 2.0. If he can't do this, then
perhaps he can find a base64 decoder.

---

From: [email-masked] (Jungshik Shin)
Date: 31 Jul 1996 14:37:14 -0400

paul harmeier ([email-masked]) wrote:
: When I congigure Pine to "enable-8bit-esmtp-negotiation" I am able to send
: pictures in JPG format from my IBM-compatible computer to a friend with a
: MAC computer, who then uses JPEGVIEW to look at the pictures. I believe
: this configuration turns off the MIME encoding of the attached pictures
: that the MAC could not decode. I would appreciate a description of what is

  Turning on enable-8bit-esmtp-nego. doesn't make change in
encoding method of binary attachment like JPEG image. It has to be and is 
encoded in Base64. Most MUA/Pop clients for Mac including Netscape
and Eudora do understanad MIME and have no problem decoding
base64 encoded binary file as well as Binhex and MacBinary I and II. 

: If the friend with the MAC computer sent a picture to me, should I have
: the configuration set at "enable-8bit-esmtp-negotiation" to keep from
: MIME-decoding something that has not been MIME-encoded? Again, I would
: appreciate a description of what is happening.

  'enable-8bit-esmtp...' has nothing to do with what Pine does
with received mail whatever format/encoding it may be in.  If it's in proper
MIME format as it should be (pls, note that MIME(and MacMIME
for sending both data and resource fork) is the standard while
Binhex although popular among Mac users is supposed to be phased out).
You may ask your friend to send his file in (Mac)MIME instead of
Binhex. Most modern MUA/Pop/IMAP clients for Mac support (Mac)MIME,
so that your friend should not have any problem with encoding
binary files in (Mac)MIME. In case you receive BinHex file,
you can decode it after saving to a file with 'Wincode' or
'Stuffit Expander' for MS-Windows. There's a binhex decoder
for Unix as well. Try the FAQ of comp.sys.mac.comm for
whereabout of those en/decoders and various file formats
to transfer Mac files with data and resource forks.

   Jungshik Shin

---

From: Mark Crispin <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 21:08:24 -0700

On Wed, 31 Jul 1996, Marc Herbert wrote:
> > 8bit encoding is
> Please, why ?

MIME is interoperable throughout the world.

Raw 8bit, without MIME, is not.  Your 8bit messages in French will show up
as unreadable in Russia, Greece, Japan, China, Taiwan,...

This is because there is effectively only one 7bit system in the world,
ASCII; whereas there are many 8bit systems.  Of course, ASCII is not
suited to languages which use non-Roman scripts, or even to Roman script
language which use diacritical marks (such as French).  A secondary
problem is that not all mailers on the Internet are 8bit capable and the
standards only require 7bit capability.

That's why MIME was created.  MIME provides a framework for identifying
all of the world's languages; and it also provides a framework for passing
8bit data on a 7bit network.

-- Mark --	Read http://www.imap.org for the "best kept secret in email"

DoD #0105, R90/6 pilot, FAX: (206) 685-4045  ICBM: N 47 39'35" W 122 18'39"
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.