Subject: Netscape Atlas 2.0 POP Mail --> Dump Pine Inbox File?

From: [email-masked] (Lloyd J. Tribley)
Date: 31 May 1996 01:31:28 GMT

I'm not familiar with how the Pine mail file operates, but I have noted that if 
I have Netscape Atlas 2.0 running while I access Pine via telnet to my Unix 
shell account that I get occasional file access errors to my mail file.  In 
addition, I note that if I bring the Netscape POP mail program up just to 
examine previously downloaded mail (without atempting to check current mail), 
quit Netscape, and then Telnet to Pine in Unix shell, my Pine mail file 
regularly blows away dumping all mail.

Since I'm a novice on the technicals, what's causing this?  Is it particular to 
POP mail in general, Netscape, Pine, or the mail server configuration?

Thanks for the insight.

---

From: Chip Old <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:40:57 -0400 (EDT)

On 31 May 1996, Lloyd J. Tribley wrote:

> I'm not familiar with how the Pine mail file operates, but I have noted
> that if I have Netscape Atlas 2.0 running while I access Pine via telnet
> to my Unix shell account that I get occasional file access errors to my
> mail file. 

The answer lies in the fact that it isn't a "Pine mail file", it's your
UNIX mail file.  All mail received for you on your UNIX host is appended
by sendmail to your personal mail file (/usr/mail/ltribley,
/var/mail/ltribley or similar, depending on how your system is
configured).  That is what Pine reads as your "Inbox", and it is also what
the POP3 server accesses when you use Netscape Atlas or any other POP
client to collect new mail.  For obvious reasons it isn't a good idea to
allow two apps to access (and potentially alter) your mail file at the
same time, so it is locked by the accessing app. 
 
If you have your POP client configured to gather new mail at regular
intervals, and if you are trying to use Pine at the same time, then you
will get an error from either Pine or the POP client, depending on which
gets control of the mail file first.

> In addition, I note that if I bring the Netscape POP mail program up
> just to examine previously downloaded mail (without atempting to check
> current mail), quit Netscape, and then Telnet to Pine in Unix shell, my
> Pine mail file regularly blows away dumping all mail.
 
If you have your POP client set to delete old mail from the server, then
it removes any messages that aren't flagged "new" from your UNIX mail
file.  This will include any mail your POP client has downloaded as well
as any mail you have read (but not deleted) in Pine.
 
Again, the key is the fact that Pine and your POP client are both
accessing the same mail file.  This can cause a great deal of confusion
unless the user understands how all the pieces interact.  We suggest the
following to our users: 
 
The simplest course of action is to use Pine exclusively or a POP client
exclusively.  If the user reads his e-mail from several access points
(i.e. not always from the same Mac or PC), we suggest that he stick with
Pine.  If he always reads his mail from the same Mac or PC via a PPP or
network connection, we recommend Pine or a POP client, but not both.
Otherwise he will end up with some message in one place, other messages
in another place, and nine times out of ten the end result is headaches
for the user _and_ our help desk staff.
 
If the user insists on using both Pine and a POP client, we recommend that
the POP client be configured to leave mail on the server.  That way he can
still read it in Pine if he chooses to do so.  However, we caution people
who do this to use Pine to delete read mail from their Inboxes on a
regular basis.  Otherwise their mail files continue to grow to the point
where I have to send a "clean it out or else" nastygram.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Francis E. Old (Chip Old)                  [email-masked]
Administrator, Internetworking Services    Voice:    (410) 887-6180
Baltimore County Public Library            FAX:      (410) 887-2091
320 York Road
Towson, Maryland 21204 U.S.A.