Subject: Re: "Receipt" function of Pine?

From: Paul O Bartlett <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 18:07:01 -0500

On 21 Jan 1996, Brian J Barbazon wrote:

> Some time ago I read that the Pine e-mail system has a "receipt" function 
> by which a system-generated message is automatically sent back to the 
> sender when the e-mail in question is "opened". If this function is 
> available, how would I find or use it? Any help would be most appreciated 
> as I am a novice user of the Pine system.

    Assuming you are using the current version 3.91 of Pine, go into 
Setup and Config from the Main Menu.  Scroll down and add a 
customized-header  Return-receipt-to: your-email-address
Be aware, however, that this does not guarnatee that you will get a 
return receipt, as not all receiving systems honor it, and there is 
currently (so far as I know) no Internet-wide requirement that the 
request be honored.

Paul                             <[email-masked]>
----------------------------------------------------------
Paul O. Bartlett, P.O. Box 857, Vienna, VA 22183-0857, USA
Finger, keyserver, or WWW for PGP 2.6.2 public key 
Home Page:  URL: http://www.access.digex.net/~pobart

---

From: Paul O Bartlett <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:29:52 -0500

On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Stephen J. Weihman wrote:

: Paul O Bartlett wrote:
: > On 21 Jan 1996, Brian J Barbazon wrote:
: > > Some time ago I read that the Pine e-mail system has a "receipt" function
: > > [...]
: >     Assuming you are using the current version 3.91 of Pine, go into
: > Setup and Config from the Main Menu.  Scroll down and add a
: > customized-header  Return-receipt-to: your-email-address
: It's my understanding - ie, correct me if I'm wrong - that the
: Return-receipt-to will only return when the destination machine receives the
: mail, not when it is actually read by the recipient.  I don't know of any
: current means to do such.

    You are correct.  If you get a return receipt back at all, it means 
nothing more than that the receiving system got it.  You get no 
information about when, if ever, the destined recipient opened the mail.  
There are a few proprietary email systems that do provide this 
mail-opened type of receipt, but they are external to the Internet as 
such.  So far as I now at present, there is no way to enforce a 
mail-opened receipt.

---

From: "Stephen J. Weihman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:13:44 -0500

> customized-header  Return-receipt-to: your-email-address

It's my understanding - ie, correct me if I'm wrong - that the
Return-receipt-to will only return when the destination machine receives the
mail, not when it is actually read by the recipient.  I don't know of any
current means to do such.

-- 
                     -- Stephen --

-------------------------------------------------------
--   Stephen J. Weihman   -*-   GTE Data Services    --
-------------------------------------------------------
--   The opinions expressed herein are entirely my   --
--     own, and are not necessarily those of GTE.    --
-------------------------------------------------------

---

From: [email-masked] (Rick Troxel)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:02:41 GMT

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Brian J
Barbazon) writes:

   Some time ago I read that the Pine e-mail system has a "receipt" function 
   by which a system-generated message is automatically sent back to the 
   sender when the e-mail in question is "opened".

Nope; but you could ask your correspondent to reply in order to confirm
receipt.

The closest to what you describe is the Return-Receipt header described
in other posts.  Note that this (if you get one) confirms _delivery_ on
the remote system, rather than having been accessed by the recipient.

Regards,
--
Rick Troxel     [email-masked]     [email-masked]     301/496-4824
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
     All effort and exertion put forth by man from the fullness of his
     heart is worship, if it  is prompted  by the  highest motives and
     the will to do service to humanity.                 --Abdu'l-Baha

---

From: Ed Greshko <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:43:54 +0800 (GMT)

> : > > Some time ago I read that the Pine e-mail system has a "receipt" function

	Just to add an extra wrinkle to this thread. 

	When you request a return-receipt (also called "delivery notification)
you may get the DN but it might not come from the end user's system.  Some
people do not use SMTP based mail systems or mail systems using sendmail.
In some cases there are "gateways" between these other email systems.  In
some cases these gateways are "smart".  They are aware that one side supports
DNs but the other side does not.  So, for messages passing through the 
gateway they will generate a DN for those messages with requests attached.
In some cases the mail may not have been delivered.  Yet, you are left
with a false sense that it has.

	Regards,

		Ed

Edward M. Greshko                       Technical Manager, Electronic Commerce
                                        Control Data Asia/Pacific Region
Voice: +886-2-715-2222 x287             6/F, 131 Nanking East Road, Section 3
FAX  : +886-2-712-9197                  Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C

---

From: [email-masked] (Jonathan and DearOldDad)
Date: 25 Jan 1996 02:26:44 GMT

[email-masked] wrote:
: >On 21 Jan 1996, Brian J Barbazon wrote:
: >> Some time ago I read that the Pine e-mail system has a "receipt" function 
: >> by which a system-generated message is automatically sent back to the 
: >> sender when the e-mail in question is "opened". If this function is 
: >> available, how would I find or use it? Any help would be most appreciated 
: >> as I am a novice user of the Pine system.
: >
: >    Assuming you are using the current version 3.91 of Pine, go into 
: >Setup and Config from the Main Menu.  Scroll down and add a 
: >customized-header  Return-receipt-to: your-email-address
: >Be aware, however, that this does not guarnatee that you will get a 
: >return receipt, as not all receiving systems honor it, and there is 
: >currently (so far as I know) no Internet-wide requirement that the 
: >request be honored.

: I tried this, but i started getting from the Mail Subsytem when the mail
: was successfully delivered and not when it was opened.. is this supposed to
: happen? and how do we make it such that we only get a 'RECEIPT' when the 
: other party "opens" the mail.. ? thanks for any help.. nuj.

Nope ... cannot be done ... see paul bartlett's (sp?) response.  Hell, if 
you want a return reciept guaranteeing that the recipient acually got 
your message, the US Post Office will sell you that for 3 or 4 dollars, 
but I don't think they actually watch to see if he (she) actually opened 
it.  Hhmmmm ... maybe a new idea ... certified mail (proves you sent it 
... well actually not, it proves you sent something) ... return reciept 
requested (someone got it) ... deliver only to addressee (he/she got the 
envelope, not sure what's in it though) ... UUhhhh ... wait ... open it 
and read it (you can read, correct?) ... sign here ... wait, wait, wait, 
... did you understand it?? ... sign here ... What, you don't can't sign 
your name because you're reading someone else's (e)mail ... Damn, where 
are the internet police when we need them.  I want PINE to assure me that 
not only did you recieve my mail, but you opened it, understood it, and 
will reply to me before 10 a.m. yesterday.   G'Day.

---

From: "Marsha C. Holmes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:27:54 -0400

Hi

The simple answer to the "Receipt" function is that the "server" you are 
sending the message to lets you know "it" received the message.

This, I found out, does not necessarily mean that the person you are 
sending the message to actually "read" it (which is why I decided to try 
this feature).  I have since disabled the feature because the Post Office 
will automatically let me know when a message is not delivered.  Why 
duplicate the effort?! 

Marsha

*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
       Marsha C. Holmes        |\ __ /.|   (`\           
     [email-masked]    _ .| o o   |_   ) )          
     ----------------------(((---(((-------------        
 Homepage:  http://www.ccn.cs.dal.ca/~ac573/Profile.html 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
 Member of HTML Writers Guild - http://www.synet.net/hwg 
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*

On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Jonathan and DearOldDad wrote:

> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 22:26:44 -0400
> From: Jonathan and DearOldDad <[email-masked]>
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: "Receipt" function of Pine?
>

---

From: Jon <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:08:36 -0500 (EST)

> sending the message to actually "read" it (which is why I decided to try 
       ... etc ...
> > Nope ... cannot be done ... see paul bartlett's (sp?) response ...
> > ... I want PINE to assure me that 

Yup, Marsha, I know that ... my post was a (stupid?) tounge-in-cheek 
response to a guy who wanted to know if someone had actually read his 
email, and I wuz only trying to point out that that is impossible. BYE.
                          /\    /~\/\/\    /\      /\  /\   |>>
John (aka DearOldDad)    /\ \/\/  / /  \/\/  \/\/\/  \/  \/\|Fore!
Pocono Mtns PA USA EARTH/__\/_/__/_/___/[email-masked]|_____
Thought for the day:
Reality is a crutch for those who don't have a firm grip on fantasy.

---

From: Paul O Bartlett <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 20:14:45 -0500

On 24 Jan 1996 [email-masked] wrote:

> [...]
> I tried this, but i started getting from the Mail Subsytem when the mail
> was successfully delivered and not when it was opened.. is this supposed to
> happen? and how do we make it such that we only get a 'RECEIPT' when the 
> other party "opens" the mail.. ? thanks for any help.. nuj.

    To the best of my knowledge, there is *NO* way currently throughout 
the Internet to force getting a receipt when and only when the recipient 
opens the mail.  Some proprietary email systems will provide such a 
receipt, but only within those systems themselves.  As someone pointed 
out to me in an email, even the delivery receipt is no guarantee that the 
mail got to the final destination system, as some intermediate "smart" 
gateways will generate a receipt.  Unfortunately, the delivery receipt 
remains an "iffy" situation at best.

---

From: [email-masked] (Brian J Barbazon)
Date: 21 Jan 1996 18:19:56 -0600

Thank you,
Brian J. Barbazon ([email-masked])

---

From: "Marsha C. Holmes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 1996 16:10:51 -0400

Hi Brian

The receipt feature is available in Pine but it only tells you that the 
Internet Provider received the mail, not that the person you sent it to 
has read it.  I tried it for awhile but decided it was a waste of time.  
You will know if they didn't receive it because the Post Office takes 
care of that.

If, however, you still want it, it is in the Config. menu of Setup.

Marsha

On Sun, 21 Jan 1996, Brian J Barbazon wrote:

> Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 20:19:56 -0400
> From: Brian J Barbazon <[email-masked]>
> Subject: "Receipt" function of Pine?
>

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: 24 Jan 1996 14:36:35 GMT

---

From: Mike Brudenell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:23:15 +0000 (GMT)

1.  Pine allows you to add extra headers beyond the set it offers as 
standard.  You can add these extra headers through the Setup 
Configuration screen, and use them (when composing a message) by placing 
the cursor on a header field then typing Ctrl/R.

2.  Some additional headers have magical meanings to SOME pieces of 
software.  For example one header REQUESTS the mail delivery agent (the 
thing which writes the message into the recipient's mailbox) to return a 
"delivery receipt" when it has done so.

3.  Another additional header is one that REQUESTS the mail reading 
program the recipient uses to generate a "this message has just been 
read" message and return it to the sender.

4.  Not all mail delivery software and/or mail reading software support 
these REQUESTS.  If a site does happen to use software that supports the 
feature then it is quite possible that the administrators of the site may 
have disabled the effects, as it can be considered a breach of personal 
privacy.

5.  So try the (as far as I remember two separate) headers by all means.  
But assume that you will NOT get any acknowledgement, and be pleasantly 
surprised if you do!  :-)

Cheers,

Mike Brudenell                                         <[email-masked]>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York, YO1 5DD, UK
Tel: +44-1904-433811  FAX: +44-1904-433740  http://www.york.ac.uk/~pmb1/

---

From: [email-masked] (hayes? who? what?)
Date: 29 Jan 1996 13:52:50 -0500

Where is this receipt feature? I can't seem to locate it in 3.91....??

27 Jan 1996 12:14:54 -0800 wrote:
: Hi Brian

: The receipt feature is available in Pine but it only tells you that the 
: Internet Provider received the mail, not that the person you sent it to 
: has read it.  I tried it for awhile but decided it was a waste of time.  
: You will know if they didn't receive it because the Post Office takes 
: care of that.

: If, however, you still want it, it is in the Config. menu of Setup.

: Marsha

: *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
:        Marsha C. Holmes        |\ __ /.|   (`\           
:      [email-masked]    _ .| o o   |_   ) )          
:      ----------------------(((---(((-------------        
:  Homepage:  http://www.ccn.cs.dal.ca/~ac573/Profile.html 
:  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
:  Member of HTML Writers Guild - http://www.synet.net/hwg 
: *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*

: On Sun, 21 Jan 1996, Brian J Barbazon wrote:

: > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 20:19:56 -0400
: > From: Brian J Barbazon <[email-masked]>
: > To: [email-masked]
: > Subject: "Receipt" function of Pine?
: > 
: > Some time ago I read that the Pine e-mail system has a "receipt" function 
: > by which a system-generated message is automatically sent back to the 
: > sender when the e-mail in question is "opened". If this function is 
: > available, how would I find or use it? Any help would be most appreciated 
: > as I am a novice user of the Pine system.
: > 
: > Thank you,
: > Brian J. Barbazon ([email-masked])
: > 
: >