Subject: a CS prof thinks elm is better than pine!!

From: [email-masked] (UMD Library Lab)
Date: 5 Jul 1995 18:06:46 -0500

Please email dcrouch and tell him why you like pine, but dont include this 
email address. 

>From [email-masked] Wed Jul  5 17:59:11 1995
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 13:23:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: donald crouch <[email-masked]>
To: UMD Library Lab <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: elm vs pine

Thank you for the information.  We prefer elm in the CS Department.

d crouch

> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> Concerning CS1010...
> 
> As consultants, we have found that pine is easier to use than elm.  In 
> addition, Pine is the officially supported IS email package.  
> 
> -- 
> Library Computer Lab
> 165 Library, 726-6549
> 

-- 

Library Computer Lab
165 Library, 726-6549

---

From: Premnath Tirumalasetty <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 10:03:36 -0500 (CDT)

Hi folks:

I think Pine has lot many features than ELM.  I use both PINE 3.91
and ELM.  PINE is more user-friendly compared to ELM.  One can view
all the commands on the menu in PINE. In ELM one needs to take help
from a help list.

But one good feature of ELM is that it works on VI editor.  So, most
of the VI commands can be used.

Thanks.

Premnath, T.

---

From: Mike Brudenell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 16:47:59 +0100 (BST)

In Pine 3.91 you can set up an "alternate editor" (such as "vi") which you
can flip to (by typing Ctrl/_) whilst editing the message body. 

In fact you can even set a feature variable so that your alternate editor
is invoked automatically as soon as you move the cursor down into the
message text area.

Mike Brudenell                                         <[email-masked]>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York, YO1 5DD, UK
Tel: +44-1904-433811  FAX: +44-1904-433740  http://www.york.ac.uk/~pmb1/

---

From: [email-masked] (Joshua_Putnam)
Date: 6 Jul 1995 14:37:12 GMT

>Please email dcrouch and tell him why you like pine, but dont include this 

I only wish I could use elm instead of pine!  From a user's point
of view elm is vastly superior, but it's such a pain in the ass
to get it to compile that on this site I'm stuck with pine.  I've
gotten used to it by now, but it still does enough irritating
things that I'd switch to elm instantly if given the choice.

(My leading gripes: even setting the signature at end variable
won't put my .signature after, rather than before, the text of
forwarded mail, and pine won't insert signature dashes so I have
to have a different .sig for pine than for the rest of the world.
Plus I hate the number of menus and the counterintuitive key
bindings: 'm' has meant compose mail in every mailer I've used
since Mail, but now every time I hit m I end up staring at the
main menu.)

Not to dog on pine too much -- it's better than mush, at least.

--

[email-masked]  is  Joshua Putnam/P.O. Box 13220/Burton, WA 98013
                   "My other bike is a car."

---

From: Michael Schuyler <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 09:22:16 -0700 (PDT)

> is invoked automatically as soon as you move the cursor down into the

Not only that, there is no way to stop invoking alternate editor 
implicitly with pine.conf.fixed, and you can make a shell you editor, 
thus gaining access to a shell from a restricted menu!

      o o o o o o o . . .   _~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\_ _~LinkNet~~~~~~\_
    o      _____            |   Kitsap Regional    | |   Support     |
  .][__n_n_|DD[  ====_____  |      Library         | |'least we try! |
 >(________|__|_[_________]_|______________________|_|_______________|_
 _/oo OOOOO oo`  ooo   ooo  'o^o^o            o^o^o` 'o^o         o^o`
========================================================================
Support: (360) 405-9131 Fax:(360) 405-9128 [email-masked]
Michael Schuyler:     Voice:(360) 405-9139 [email-masked]

---

From: Mike Brudenell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 17:55:03 +0100 (BST)

I don't think I agree with you on this...

I've just tried adding the following to our "fixed" configuration file:

feature-list=no-enable-alternate-editor-implicitly,
	...any other features you want to fix...

The "no-" prefix indicates these feature-list values are to be forced "off"
(omitting the "no-" forces a value on).  Any feature-list values not
listed in the "fixed" configuration file can be altered by the user;
ones listed cannot.

Doesn't this happen for you?  (We're using Pine 3.91)

---

From: dek-leang-kwai <[email-masked]>
Date: 6 Jul 1995 15:58:08 GMT

Hi,

Could you please solve word wrap problem?
When cut text from other xterm and paste in pine
then it wrap at col 75 and 75-80 col become junk on the other line.

THANKS,
zxc

--

---

From: [email-masked] ()
Date: 6 Jul 1995 15:21:12 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
>of the VI commands can be used.

Splunge.

Here's what I like about pine:
1) Supports remote mailboxes via IMAP.
2) My wife can use it; doesn't have to learn cryptic VI commands.

Here's what I like about elm:
1) Smaller, less code bloat (makes a difference on some old Sparcs we have
with only 8M of RAM. :(
2) Doesn't include a newsreader (trn IMHO is the best NR out there, the one
builtin to pine is slow and I never use it.)
3) OS/2 port available.

So, for me, if elm directly supported POP or IMAP, I would prefer it, but it
doesn't, so it's basically a tossup.

Dan

-- 
Daniel Matthew Coleman		   | Internet: [email-masked]
-----------------------------------+		[email-masked]
The University of Texas at Austin  |
Electrical/Computer Engineering	   |	 http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~coleman/

---

From: dek-leang-kwai <[email-masked]>
Date: 6 Jul 1995 18:18:44 GMT

[email-masked] (Joshua_Putnam) wrote:
Thanks.
I don't means any editor not vi and not pico.
I means simple cut text from another xterm and put into pine.
I have no problem when set automatic vi as editor.
But this will slow down the process because I have to quit vi
before sending mail by pine.

BTW: where should I set :se wm=0
It doesn't exist in .pinerc

THANKS,
zxc

>If you're referring to wrapping when using vi, that is controlled
>by the vi configuration, not the pine configuration.  Most
>systems will set up vi with a polite right margin, wide enough
>that quoted text won't start wrapping onto the next line.
>
>In any case, the vi variable involved is the wrapmargin, or wm.
>It's the margin from the right, so the command
>
>:se wm=1
>
>on an 80-column terminal will wrap lines after column 79.  If you
>
>:se wm=0
>
>then vi will stop auto-wrapping entirely.
>
>You can permanently configure vi by editing your .exrc to include
>a line like
>
>set wrapmargin=X
>
>where X is whatever margin you prefer.
>
>
>--
>

--

---

From: [email-masked] (Joshua_Putnam)
Date: 6 Jul 1995 17:43:41 GMT

:se wm=1

:se wm=0

set wrapmargin=X

--

---

From: [email-masked] (Todd Natkin)
Date: 6 Jul 1995 20:52:53 GMT

After setting the wrapmargin to 8 or so, you will probably want to
reformat a paragraph since wrapmargin works only when the cursor moves
past the selected column.

The following mapping in your .exrc file will allow you to
automatically reformat a paragraph:

                  map ^O {!}fmt^M}j

Give it a try.  Remember the ^M must be entered as ^V^M to get a real
^M into the .exrc file.

/Todd Natkin
 [email-masked] 
Mike Brudenell ([email-masked]) wrote:
: In Pine 3.91 you can set up an "alternate editor" (such as "vi") which you
: can flip to (by typing Ctrl/_) whilst editing the message body. 

: In fact you can even set a feature variable so that your alternate editor
: is invoked automatically as soon as you move the cursor down into the
: message text area.

: Mike Brudenell                                         <[email-masked]>
: ------------------------------------------------------------------------
: The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York, YO1 5DD, UK
: Tel: +44-1904-433811  FAX: +44-1904-433740  http://www.york.ac.uk/~pmb1/

: On Thu, 6 Jul 1995, Premnath Tirumalasetty wrote:

: > Hi folks:
: > 
: > I think Pine has lot many features than ELM.  I use both PINE 3.91
: > and ELM.  PINE is more user-friendly compared to ELM.  One can view
: > all the commands on the menu in PINE. In ELM one needs to take help
: > from a help list.
: > 
: > But one good feature of ELM is that it works on VI editor.  So, most
: > of the VI commands can be used.
: > 
: > Thanks.
: > 
: > Premnath, T.

--
========================================================================
 Please "finger -l [email-masked]" for PGP public key & WWW home page
========================================================================