Subject: Re: How to get Receipt?

From: Al Cohan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:58:57 GMT

On Sat, 8 Apr 1995, Bob Brody wrote:

> In article <[email-masked]> you wrote:
> >Hello.
> >I am trying to set up my custom headers in PINE 3.91 to provide a 
> >facility to have a "return receipt" when the message is read, or received 
> >at the far end. 

> I asked the same question and received some replies respectively.  If
> you haven't let me know and I'll forward the info I received.  It seems
> to work but not all sites support this so in some I get back a return
> receipt notification, in some I don't.  I tested it out and it works
> though I'm still waiting to see if it works when emailing someone at
> Compuserve because mail has been down all day there, I think, so I
> don't know if mine has yet to arrive.  As well, I find the receipt is
> sent when the mail arrives, not when the recipient reads it.  Not a
> particularly good implementation, if you ask me.
> 
> Regards,
> Bob Brody

Bob, thank you for your response re: PINE. I did receive a couple of 
replies and they seemed to work:

In the header put Read-Receipt-To: and I think Reply-Receipt-To: or 
Forward-Receipt-To: ...I forget which one but the person said to put both 
in the header.

So, I put these in my Custom Header, incorrectly thinking that they would 
only be invoked with I did the ^R for the "Rich Header" at the first 
level of Compose.....I started getting receipts from my own domain as 
well as other!....Not necessarily all, as this is up to the MTA at the far 
end, but enough that I knew something was wrong.

Now, apparently anything but in the "Custom Header's" applies to ALL mail 
even though you don't it in your composition header.

I was trying to have a default header with To:, Cc;, Bcc:, Attachment: and
Subject: 

Then under Rich Header. I wanted the full blown expansion is Receipts, 
Newsgroups, Expire, Reply to, Distribution and any other field that I may 
use. Some of these files like Receipt, would have my name@domain, others 
would be available for use.

So, now I have a different set of problems, namely trying to get this 
selective. If I can't find a way to enhance only the Rich Header, then it 
appears I will have to start PINE (3.91) with an alternate .pinerc file.

Thanx again,
Al

---

From: Mike Jelineo <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 18:53:12 -0700

Hi All--
  I would like to know about having a Return Receipt Generated when the 
person reads the message so that I will know if they had or not. 
Sometimes I don't get replys from people for a really long time and I am 
curious if there was a way to get a Return Receipt once someone reads the 
message.

--Mike Jelineo

BTW - Please Send All Answers to My E-mail Address instead of Posting it 
      To comp.mail.pine.  I like getting answers via Private e-mail....!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Jelineo
[email-masked] 		Vancouver, WA USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 08:11:02 +0100 (BST)

On Mon, 17 Apr 1995, Mike Jelineo wrote:

Mike,

Pine does not have any form of Return-Receipt-To built in but if you are 
using sendmail as your MTA, then you can get receipts.  This is done by 
adding a Return-Receipt-To: customised header to your pine.conf file.

Note that you *should* not put Retun-Receipt-To: in the header section of 
sendmail.cf as this would mean that every email would get a receipt.  
Also the Return-Receipt-To: function is meant for debugging purposes only 
and is not intended as a delivery notification service.  In addtion, this 
may not always work as ir requires a flag (F=l) to be set in the 
receiving sendmail.cf file for it to work.

If you are not getting replies from people for a long time, this could be 
for a couple of reasons.

1)  The peole who you are sending email to, get so much email that it 
takes them a long time to answer (or they have other priorities, which 
means that they do not read email that often :-)

2)  The return (or sending) path of the emai means that the email itself 
is taking a long time to get to your recipients.  If your email has to go 
through 3 gateways and each takes 1/2 day to deal with it (extreme I 
agree), it would take 1 1/2 days for your email to get there !

Another thing to think about is that some people will not thank you for 
asking for delivery notification/return-receipt as there are still people 
who have to pay for email traffic 

Stuart

CC'd to the pine mailing list for others to read

>       To comp.mail.pine.  I like getting answers via Private e-mail....!

----
Stuart Tares			Email : [email-masked]
Senior Network Analyst		Voice : +44 181 742 4060
DHL Systems Ltd, CSG Europe & Africa Region

---

From: [email-masked] (R. Stewart Ellis)
Date: 19 Apr 95 13:33:07 GMT

>curious if there was a way to get a Return Receipt once someone reads the 

It is really none of your business when and whether they read your
messages.  You only have the right (perhaps) to know that the package was
successfully delivered.

This demand, which is frequently made, is odious.

 >      To comp.mail.pine.  I like getting answers via Private e-mail....!

I like posting things, but because I want you to be sure and get it, I am
also mailing it.  You are a demanding person, aren't you?

           ^^^^^^^^

Aah! that explains a lot!

-- 
  R.Stewart(Stew) Ellis, Assoc.Prof., (Off)810-762-9765   ___________________
  Humanities & Social Science,  GMI Eng.& Mgmt. Inst.    /   _____  ______ 
  Flint, MI 48504      [email-masked]               /        / /  /  / /
  Gopher,chimera,nn,tin,jove,modems, free code is best!/________/ /  /  / /

---

From: [email-masked] (R. Stewart Ellis)
Date: 19 Apr 95 13:37:22 GMT

>On Mon, 17 Apr 1995, Mike Jelineo wrote:

[...]

 >agree), it would take 1 1/2 days for your email to get there !

You left out an important 3rd possibility:  Maybe they just don't like him.

 >> curious if there was a way to get a Return Receipt once someone reads the 

This is jerky.

 >>       To comp.mail.pine.  I like getting answers via Private e-mail....!

So is this.

---

From: David Dumaresq <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 08:18:09 -0700 (PDT)

> This demand, which is frequently made, is odious.

-I would like ... is *not* a demand, and it may be onerous to code but 
odious sounds like a fighting word.

> Aah! that explains a lot!

His sig. explains about as much as yours does, or mine below for that
matter. 

Give the guy a break. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Dumaresq                                	| email: [email-masked]
Programmer/Analyst, Info. Systems & Computing   | phone: (604) 599-2120
Kwantlen University College, BC, Canada    	| fax:   (604) 599-2068

           "The world is one country and mankind its citizens."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [email-masked] (Lucio Chiappetti)
Date: 21 Apr 1995 05:31:41 -0500

Various persons wrote :
|> 
|>  >>   I would like to know about having a Return Receipt Generated when the 
|>  >> person reads the message so that I will know if they had or not. 
|>  >> Sometimes I don't get replys from people for a really long time and I am 
|> 
|>  >If you are not getting replies from people for a long time, this could be 
|>  >for a couple of reasons.
|> 
|>  >1)  The peole who you are sending email to, get so much email that it 
|>  >takes them a long time to answer (or they have other priorities, which 
|>  >means that they do not read email that often :-)
|> 
|>  >2)  The return (or sending) path of the emai means that the email itself 
|>  >is taking a long time to get to your recipients.  If your email has to go 
|>  >through 3 gateways and each takes 1/2 day to deal with it (extreme I 
|>  >agree), it would take 1 1/2 days for your email to get there !
|> 
|> You left out an important 3rd possibility:  Maybe they just don't like him.

   Back at the time I was using BITNET mail it was offered as a default
   the possibility to know whether a mail message was "read" or "discarded"
   by the recipient (in this context "read" meant in Unix terms moved
   from the inbox to another folder, and "discarded" deleted from inbox,
   the recipient may or may not *actually* read the content ...).
   The justification for that was that mail delivery was a store-and-
   forward process across many nodes, and could stop for some time in
   between.

   I thought the facility was handy, and occasionally used it.
   The waste of bandwidth was minimal.
   I DO NOT SHARE THE OPINION this is offensive on my privacy.

   Nevertheless what one should be interested in, is whether mail is
   delivered, and if the recipient is present at work to read it.

   Given the way internet mail is delivered, there should usually be
   no reason to check for delivery, unless a gateway is involved.

   If there is no gateway, either the mail is delivered almost imme-
   diately (one could turn a verbose flag in some mailing programs,
   I've seen it on Suns, or use /usr/lib/sendmail -v to send the mail
   and see the SMTP dialogue), or if the node is not reachable it
   queues up on the origin node.

   Command mailq (or /usr/lib/sendmail -bp) can be used by anybody
   to show the content of the mail queue.

   Otherwise one can inspect the /var/spool/mqueue/syslog

   Assuming therefore that one knows whether mail is delivered or not,
   one can then use "finger" to see if the recipient is logged on, or
   not and since when.

   This should settle the case if no gateway is involved.

   If a gateway is involved then it might be appropriate to ask for
   a return receipt, I've never done it myself but I know newer Pine
   versions allow to do it in the custom header.

   Again I feel this is pretty justified, and not violating anybody's
   privacy, nor being disturbing.
   ( I feel more disturbed when people try to get my attention in
    real time using programs like "write", "talk", or VMS PHONE, or
    a real telephone !)

-- 
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Internet: [email-masked]  |                                           
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From: [email-masked] (Mary Brown)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 00:54:19 GMT

>    versions allow to do it in the custom header.

I just blundered in here, and so don't know if this has already been
discussed, but how do you request a receipt in the customer header? That's
about the only thing I don't like about Pine ....

Thanks.

-- 
Mary D. Brown
[email-masked]