Subject: Macs & basic keyboards

From: [email-masked] (Erin O'Neill)
Date: 13 Oct 1994 10:18:44 -0700

I have a user that dials in on 2 different Macs during the week.
One of the Macs has an extended keyboard & she has no problems 
with Pine (in fact she LOVES it).  But at least once a week she
is using a Mac with a basic keyboard & suddenly the arrow keys
don't work, nor do the <ctrl>v or <ctrl>y.  I told her that I
had read in this group to try an <esc> before the <ctrl> key
and see if that works.

BUT really that's a nuissance and certainly there must be a 
setup for this??  We have Pine 3.90 running on a Sun 4.1.3.

Any hints??

thanks.
erin

-- 
erin
[email-masked]

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From: Terry Gray <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 19:33:33 -0700 (PDT)

Erin,
Actually you need *two* ESCAPE characters before the desired 
cntrl character, in order to use the control-key workaround.

As far as keyboard setup: Pine just uses the normal ascii character set 
(with a little special knowledge of some typical escape sequences for 
arrow keys.)  So the question is: how to get the Mac communication 
software to send, for example, control characters --espcially if there is 
no control key!

Some Mac communication programs have an option that lets you use the 
Apple command key as a control key.  (I used a MacPlus with Kermit this 
way for several years.)  Even if this fixes the control key problem, it 
may not fix the arrow keys.  The only thing I can suggest there is that 
there are control key equivalents for all four arrow keys: ^P, ^N, ^F, ^B
for previous, next, forward, back.

-teg

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From: [email-masked] (Gunther Anderson)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 20:42:46 GMT

Erin O'Neill ([email-masked]) wrote:
: I have a user that dials in on 2 different Macs during the week.
: One of the Macs has an extended keyboard & she has no problems 
: with Pine (in fact she LOVES it).  But at least once a week she
: is using a Mac with a basic keyboard & suddenly the arrow keys
: don't work, nor do the <ctrl>v or <ctrl>y.  I told her that I
: had read in this group to try an <esc> before the <ctrl> key
: and see if that works.

It's not really Pine's fault.  It comes down to her terminal program, and 
what sorts of keyboard mapping it allows.  I've found that some terminal 
programs use the Apple key as a control, others may find more novel ways 
of aliasing them.  But you need to dig through the terminal package to 
find out where and how it's handling special characters like that, and 
ask it nicely to stop.  If you have other programs available for the 
task, you might see if one of the others is just more friendly.  It might 
be that the program she uses on the old Mac is expecting a new keyboard 
for some reason, and can't figure out why it's not finding one.

Gunther Anderson

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From: John L Nasers <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 19:04:05 -0400

> : had read in this group to try an <esc> before the <ctrl> key

I had the same problem and found the answer in a local Mac newsgroup. 
Apparently Apple did not anticipate the use of the ctrl-@ and ctrl-^ keys
for applications and did not include a keyboard mapping in the system for
them.  Telnet 2.6 has two files that will correctly map these keys to the
right ASCII codes.  If you drop the file "U.S. - Fixed Controls" in your
system folder then goto the Keyboard control panel and select "U.S. -
Fixed Controls" it should work.

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From: Mike Brudenell <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 13:10:23 +0100

I can confirm that using the US Fixed Controls files does *sort of* work 
with a British keyboard.

"Sort of" means that you must use Ctrl/Shift/6 rather than Ctrl/6 most 
"real" terminals let you use.  It also means that the Shift/3 key 
(labelled with the curly-L pound sign) generates a hash (tic-tac-toe) 
sign and Option/Shift/3 the opposite.  This is, of course, the reverse of 
what we Britishers expect in normal applications (but IS what my Telnet 
trained fingers expect of a terminal session!)

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