Subject: Re: ...filters [FAQ]

From: David L Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 1994 09:42:35 -0700 (PDT)

>From the upcoming Pine FAQ:

How can I filter messages into different incoming folders? 

Pine does not do delivery filtering. That function is done by other programs,
such as "procmail", or "filter" or "deliver". 

Once you have set-up your delivery filtering, e.g. via the "filter"  program,
then you will have new mail arriving in several different mailboxes/folders,
in addition to your INBOX. 

So then the question becomes, how do you access those new "incoming message"
folders that your favorite delivery filter program has created? Pine's answer
is to let you specify them in your .pinerc, as in the example: 

incoming-folders=Consulting       {warhol.art.nowhere.edu}filter/to-help,
                 Widget-Project   {warhol.art.nowhere.edu}filter/to-widget,
                 Old-Student-Acct {fozzie.elsewhere.edu}INBOX

In this case, the pinerc entries presume that your delivery filtering program
has been configured to put mail relating to "consulting" into the folder
"filter/to-help" and mail relating to the "widget project" into
"filter/to-widget". 

>From the Folders List screen, you can then easily access those folders. 
Eventually we will have a way to indicate which of these may have new mail
waiting for you, so that you don't "forget" that you have more than one place
to look for new mail... 

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    [email-masked]  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing, JE-20
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On 22 Aug 1994, FLOATING OUTWARD wrote:

> I apologize in advance for asking what I am sure must be a FAQ on this 
> group - I checked the relevant archival sites and was unable to find a 
> FAQ.  :(
> 
> I need to know how to filter my mail into folders.  Ie: all mail from 
> [email-masked] goes into the WangHead folder, all mail with "fork" in 
> the title goes into the Fork folder, etc..
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> -- 
> ( THEY CAN STOP THE PARTY, BUT THEY CAN'T STOP THE FUTURE )
> ( --------------------[ [email-masked] ]------------- )
> 
>

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From: [email-masked] (FLOATING OUTWARD)
Date: 22 Aug 1994 21:42:51 -0400

Thanks.

---

From: Dion Vansevenant <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 19:32:57 -0400 (EDT)

> the title goes into the Fork folder, etc..

Currently there is no way for Pine to do the actual filtering of 
messages. You need to get 'filter' or 'procmail' and set them up to do 
the actual filtering, then change your .pinerc file to list Incoming 
Folders to place the filtered mail into.

I think pine 3.90 will have filtering built-in, but don't quote me on that.

Dion

*----------------------------------------------*
| Dion Vansevenant        [email-masked]        |
| Systems Administrator                        |
| Faxon/SMS Canada Ltd.   (519) 472-1006 voice |
| P.O. Box 2382           (519) 472-1072 fax   |
| London, ON                                   | 
| Canada N6A 5A7                               |
*----------------------------------------------*

If you don't change your direction - you're bound to end up where you're headed.
                                                               - Chinese Proverb

---

From: Ed Greshko <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 08:17:50 +0800 (TPE)

> I think pine 3.90 will have filtering built-in, but don't quote me on that.

	*DO NOT QUOTE YOU*

	Filtering is *not* the task of the MUA.  It will *not* be built-in
in 3.90.  You *must* get procmail, deliver, or filter.  

	When responding to requests try to refrain from "I think...."
answers.  Incorrect information given out as a result of this can
have far reaching effects.

	Regards,

				Ed

Edward M. Greshko			Technical Manager, Electronic Commerce
					Control Data Asia/Pacific Region
Voice: +886-2-715-2222 x287		6/F, 131 Nanking East Road, Section 3
FAX  : +886-2-712-9197			Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C

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From: [email-masked] (Blain Nelson)
Date: 26 Aug 94 19:12:31 GMT

Dave King <[email-masked]> writes:

>So, although pine3.90 will not have filtering capability for incoming 
>mail (it's not appropriate anyway)....

This may seem like a silly question, but what's so darn inappropriate 
about having a useful mail-handling feature like filtering mail in a 
mail-handling application?  Is this an actual impropriety or just another 
custom thing like not having word-wrap in unix editors?

Blain

>Dave
>___________________________________________________________________
>Dave King  Admin. Computing Services Manager, University of Bristol

---

From: Dave King <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 09:34:44 GMT

Pine3.90 will not have inbuilt filtering, but you will be able to setup a 
number of folders for "incoming mail". Incoming mail folders can be local 
or remote (IMAP) folders.

Pine3.90 has several new features including "Select" (to select a
collection of messages in a folder based on criteria such as 'Subject',
'From', 'Date', etc.), to which you will be able to "Apply" one of Pine's
message manipulation commands; for example 'Delete','Print', and perhaps
most useful in this case 'Save'. 

So, although pine3.90 will not have filtering capability for incoming 
mail (it's not appropriate anyway), you will be able to manually organise 
your messages very quickly the following way:

1.  Open you INBOX in the usual way.
2.  Use the 'Select' command.
    - enter selection criteria; possibly 'Subject'?
    - type in the subject that you want to 'match' on.
    (at this point Pine3.90 highlights those messages that match your 
    selection criteria).
3.  Use the 'Apply' command.
    -  select the 'Save' option, and enter the appropriate folder name.
4.  eXpunge the saved (and marked for deletion if Pine3.90 is configured 
    to do so) messages from your INBOX.

Of all the improvements and fixes in Pine3.90, I think the aggregate
operation commands (Select, Apply, Zoom), will be widely used, and become
very popular with Pine3.90 users. 

Dave
___________________________________________________________________
Dave King  Admin. Computing Services Manager, University of Bristol
RFC-822:   [email-masked]
X.400:     G=Dave;S=King;O=bristol;P=UK.AC;C=GB 
Telephone: 0117 9303961

---

From: David L Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 22:09:19 -0700 (PDT)

> I think pine 3.90 will have filtering built-in, but don't quote me on that.

Bzzzzzt!  Filtering will not be in 3.90, nor is it currently planned for any
future version.

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From: Dion Vansevenant <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 19:36:03 -0400 (EDT)

> Bzzzzzt!  Filtering will not be in 3.90, nor is it currently planned for any

Darn! Do I get a consolation prize for playing "Answer That Question"? ;))

Dion

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From: Ed Greshko <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 1994 12:14:13 +0800 (TPE)

> custom thing like not having word-wrap in unix editors?

Blain,

	It is inappropriate to place this task with a UA. 

	Think of it this way.  Your UA is not active at all times.  When
you invoke pine you generally look to one place, the inbox, where the
MTA has deposited your incoming mail.  Now the only time the UA could
sort and xfer your incoming mail into the designated folders would be on
start-up.  If you have a lot of email in your inbox the start-up time
could be excessive.  Then, think of what would need to be done when new
mail arrives while you are reading your inbox....the same sort of time
consuming tasks will need to be performed along with associated locking
problems.

	Your MTA is working for you 24hrs a day.  It is best suited to
take care of delivery of email to its designated spot.  Think of it as
the PO sorting the incoming email into individual boxes.  It is better
than the PO handing your a stack of letters and you having to sort them
before getting down to the business of reading...

	Regards,

		Ed

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From: [email-masked] (R. Stewart Ellis)
Date: 27 Aug 94 01:35:31 GMT

>custom thing like not having word-wrap in unix editors?

ALL of the UNIX editors I use do word wrap: JOVE, Joe, pico, jed, GNU EMACS.
I have spent less than a total of 2 hours of time in vi in over 9 years of
heavy UNIX use.

-- 
  R.Stewart(Stew) Ellis, Assoc.Prof., (Off)313-762-9765   ___________________
  Humanities & Social Science,  GMI Eng.& Mgmt. Inst.    /   _____  ______ 
  Flint, MI 48504      [email-masked]               /        / /  /  / /
  Gopher,chimera,nn,tin,jove,modems, free code is best!/________/ /  /  / /

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From: [email-masked] (Blain Nelson)
Date: 27 Aug 94 01:02:00 GMT

>The logical place to handle filtering is during the delivery process.  Since
>Pine is not involved with the delivery process, why would it be involved with
>filtering? 

Maybe because it's a mail thing and Pine handles mail.  Maybe because 
having access to Pine does not guarantee access to filtering otherwise.  
Maybe because ELM does it and Pine is Nearly Elm.  Maybe because I've 
seen posts here approximately weekly asking for the feature.

For that matter, why can't Pine be involved in the delivery process?  Is 
there a law?

Blain

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From: Ed Greshko <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 1994 17:36:41 +0800 (TPE)

On 27 Aug 1994, Blain Nelson wrote:

> Maybe because ELM does it and Pine is Nearly Elm.

To take a lead from David....

Bzzzzzzzztttt.....  *Wrong*  ELM does *not* filter.  It includes in its
distribution an additional utility called "filter".  If that is what you
want....then say it.

> Maybe because I've 

Just because you've seen posts about it...doesn't make it a viable feature.

> For that matter, why can't Pine be involved in the delivery process?  Is 

Because it is a User Agent and *not* a Transport Agent.  There are 
distictions.

Seems you didn't get my email I'd sent you....let me post it for you..

---

From: David L Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 14:08:13 -0700 (PDT)

---

From: [email-masked] (Jim Davis)
Date: 26 Aug 1994 21:19:21 -0700

In article <n9348795.777949320@gonzo>,
Blain Nelson <[email-masked]> wrote:
:
:For that matter, why can't Pine be involved in the delivery process?  Is 
:there a law?
:

I'm sure pine could be modified to be a local delivery agent.  But why
bother, when existing programs (like /bin/mail) already do that?

Also, local delivery agents usually have to run with special
privileges -- /bin/mail is setuid root (or setgid mail).  Making pine
setuid root would not be a good idea!

---

From: David L Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 21:38:53 -0700 (PDT)

> seen posts here approximately weekly asking for the feature.

ELM does *not* do filtering.  The "filter" program in the ELM distribution is
a completely independent application that works just as well with Pine. 

> For that matter, why can't Pine be involved in the delivery process?  Is 

Not in the legal sense, but in practical terms, yes.

---

From: [email-masked] (Alex Nishri)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 1994 20:11:11 GMT

In article <n9348795.777928351@gonzo>,
>custom thing like not having word-wrap in unix editors?

I actually read your question rather differently then did some of the other
people who replied.  I assumed you were talking about it from a user
interface point of view.  As far as the user is concerned pine is their tool
set for dealing with mail.  Specifying dynamic message selectiona and action
(e.g. like pine3.90 select & apply commands) or automatic message selection
and action (e.g. from now on select all messages meeting the following
criteria and apply the following commands ...) naturally fall into the tool
the user sees.  So I should be able to say, from now on all messages from
"[email-masked]" should be filed in my "Blain" folder.

I think the other people who replied were telling you where the code to
implement this would reside most naturally in a client-server environment.
Of course, as a user of pine I don't care which of the server (post office)
or client (pine) implements a particular action; all I care about is how easy
it is for me to figure out how to use a feature.  I think it would be
simplier for users if mail filtering was indeed done in the pine user
interface; For someone who uses PC-Pine, has never seen UNIX, and has no
login access to the post office telling them to use "filter" from the elm
distribution is like telling them to dance on the moon.

Alex

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From: [email-masked] (Marcos Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 23:18:16 GMT

Yes, as an end user of pine, with limmited knowledge of Unix, I will love
ONE program that would let me do all of my mail houskeeping.
But, alas, I can understand the point raised by those who consider pine an
inapropiate (and inefective) way to filter mail.
What we need is somebody that will take procmail and make it as user
friendly as pine is...
?some unix guru listening out there?

Shalom ve Tzedek
Pucho (aka marcos) [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Neil Hoggarth)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 07:57:19 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,

>I have spent less than a total of 2 hours of time in vi in over 9 years of

And (getting totaly off topic :-) ) one can make Vi wordwrap too.

Regards,

-- 
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Neil Hoggarth                    Computer Officer, Laboratory of Physiology
<[email-masked]>                                Oxford University, UK
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