Subject: Where was idea of a pine USENENT newsgroup left??

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 7:39:27 -0500 (EST)

There has been several bursts of discussion about creating
a pine USENET newsgroup as an alternative way to distribute
pine-info.  What became of that?  Was that a yes/no/maybe?

I've been trying to hang on to my pine subscription until such
a day, but I am able to read less and less of the traffic and
will probably drop off the list soon.  For those of us with
access to a newsfeed and threaded newsreader, a newsgroup is a
marvelous solution to the signal-to-noise ratio inherent in
matching any one subscriber's interests to a high-volume
discussion.

  Jim Cerny, Computing and Information Services, Univ.N.H.
	[email-masked]

P.S.  The closest I can find to a pine newsgroup is
	rec.skiing.alpine      :-)
                     ^^^^

---

From: Ken Weaverling <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 08:12:17 -0500 (EST)

> pine-info.  What became of that?  Was that a yes/no/maybe?

I originally said I would step y'all through the procedure, in case
the readers here aren't used to the rules of newsgroup creation. 

The things we need to do though, before an RFD is issued (request for
discussion) on news.announce.newsgroups is:

1) Decide if the group will be gated to the mailing list, and if so, who
will handle this. My site isn't a logical choice for this since we a leaf 
site at the end of a 56K link. 

2) Decide the name (comp.mail.pine sounds good to me)

3) Get a committment from the pine developers to participate in the 
group (not run it, just read and post) like they do here. That will add
a lot of value to it. Note that if it is gated to the mailing list, this
is a moot point.

4) Write the RFD that will be submitted to n.a.n. Decide what other groups
the RFD should be cross-posted to. (news.groups, comp.mail.misc, 
comp.mail.elm -- whoops, sorry, Pine Is Not Elm -- forgot! :-)

Below is an RFD for another group I scarfed from n.a.n.  The RFD should
somewhat match the below one, including things like moderation status 
(un-moderated), group charter, and rationale for wanting it (why is the
mailing list not a viable solution anymore for many, etc...)

Newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.lang.misc
Subject: RFD: comp.compilers.pccts
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 22 Mar 1994 17:14:43 -0500

	Request For Discussion (RFD):    comp.compilers.pccts

	This message seeks to initiate a discussion on the creation of a
new USENET newsgroup "comp.compilers.pccts" as described below.
Discussion should take place in news.groups. Anyone interested in the topic
is encouraged to participate.

Purpose:
--------
	This newsgroup would be for discussion of tools used in compiler
construction, specifically those which are bundled into the software package
known as PCCTS (Purdue Compiler Construction Tool Set). Currently this set of
tools includes DLG for lexical analysis, ANTLR for syntax analysis and parsing,
and SORCERER for tree parsing. Possible topics include exchange of information
on getting, building, installing, and using the tools, broadcasting examples,
bug reports and patches, suggestions for enhancements, and new tools to be
added to the set. 

Rationale:
----------
	The Purdue Compiler Construction Tool Set currently has over 1000
known users in over 37 countries. The tools are freely available with 
source code by anonymous ftp and are actively maintained. There is also a very 
active mailing list which is used to provide support as outlined above. With
the recent release of the SORCERER tool, traffic on the mailing list has 
increased substantially. The existing comp.compilers newsgroup provides a forum
for general compiler-related issues, but is not intended to address tools issues
or PCCTS specifically. The proposed newsgroup comp.compilers.pccts would provide
a focused forum for the users of PCCTS to exchange information as outlined in
the possible topics mentioned above. Upon creation of the newsgroup, the 
existing mailing list will be converted to a mail gateway to retain access for
users unable to receive Usenet news.

Charter:
--------
	comp.compilers.pccts is an unmoderated newsgroup which will serve as a
forum for all topics related to the installation, operation, and development
of the Purdue Compiler Construction Tool Set (PCCTS), including all of its
current tools, as well as any which may be added in the future. Some of the
topics to be discussed are:

- How to obtain the PCCTS package.

- Questions and answers on building and using the tools.

- How to write an ANTLR/SORCERER grammar.

- How to use Semantic/Syntactic predicates.

- Announcement of conferences and workshops.

- Ideas for Enhancements/New tools for the set.

- Posting of sample grammars and lexclasses.

Distribution:
-------------
	This RFD is being cross-posted to the following groups. Please relay
this proposal to anyone you feel may be interested.

news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,comp.compilers 

	In addition, this RFD is being posted to the existing pccts-users
mailing list.

---

From: David L Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 09:58:26 -0800 (PST)

Item (3) should not be a problem.  I may not get to it quite as 
diligently as the mailing list, but I will definitely participate. 

I'll add a question 1a) If there is not a bi-directional gateway, how do you
clearly distinguish between the charters of the list and newsgroup?  Some way
to minimize the cross-posting would be essential! 

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    [email-masked]  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing, JE-20
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA