Subject: Browsing while creating Pine distribution lists

From: Ian Lumb <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 10:20:56 -0500 (EST)

Once of our local pine enthusiasts wrote:

> But I tell you what would be great: a feature that would let you "browse" 
> your address book and select each name you want to add to your list.  If 
> you are ever talking to the Pine folks maybe you could pass along the 
> suggestion.

To which I responded: 

I guess that you could always suspend your address book composition, 
browse, and then add to the existing list ...

Does the Pine Team, or anyone else, have anything else to add to this? Is
this a possible feature/enhancement request for a future release of 
Pine :)

Ian.

--
Ian Lumb     Internet: <[email-masked]>
Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817

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From: David L Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 08:39:33 -0800 (PST)

Hmmm...  So, basically what you are asking for is to have ^T work in the
CreateList command?  I can see how it would be useful when your addressbook
gets very large.  I'll add this to the requested enhancements list... 

Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    [email-masked]  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing, JE-20
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

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From: Omi Chandiramani <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 11:56:39 -0500 (EST)

When composing a message in Pico it would be really nice if Ctrl-k (Del 
Line/Cut Text) would only delete from the cursor to the end of the line 
rather than removing the whoel line - just like what Ctrl-k does in 
Emacs. So often I have to advance to somewhere in the middle of the line 
and bang Ctrl-d 15 or more times. If I wanted to delete the whole line I 
could easily move the cursor to the beggining of it by pressing Ctrl-a. 
Anybody else for this change? 

Omi Chandiramani
[email-masked]

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From: Terry Gray <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 09:56:49 -0800 (PST)

Omi,
There are at least some folks at Pine Central that would be happier with
an emacs-style ^K as well... as it happens, that's what we started with
four years ago, and we soon got feedback that this was not the behavior
novices expected, so we switched. 

We will be investigating the feasibility of having an emacs-style ^K option.

-teg

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From: Matt Simmons <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:38:34 -0600 (CST)

> Anybody else for this change? 
No, because then you'd have to make sure you were at the beginning of a 
line every time you wanted to delete something...  Why don't you just hit 
Ctrl-^,Ctrl-E,Ctrl-K?  Though it's slight more messy, it works (and I 
don't feel like having to type Ctrl-A Ctrl-K.. =) )...  And by all means, 
if you want Emacs functionality, use emacs!

   [email-masked]  Matt Simmons  Bradley University, Peoria, IL
                    Found in the BU Scout Personals:  
  "Jane--I don't want to be alone again for Valentine's Day.  I want to work 
    this out.  I was just hurt that you would sleep with my best friend ... 
     repeatedly ... in my bed.  Actually, never mind.  Go to hell.   John"

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From: Sharon Deng <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 10:44:28 -0800 (PST)

David:
I am so glad you will add this feature to the new version.  Thank you in
advance.  

Please don't say I am getting greedy.  It will be very helpful if we can
take the address from the incoming mail and add the address directly to
the distribution list. 

> > this a possible feature/enhancement request for a future release of 

Sharon Deng
Assistant Director			Internet: [email-masked]
Academic Computer Center			  [email-masked]
University of Redlands			   Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963

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From: Stephen Smoogen <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:05:22 -0700 (MST)

> We will be investigating the feasibility of having an emacs-style ^K option.

You could always make it a part of growth, could you not? As in 
sapling kills the entire line, while old-growth uses emacs style 
deletion. I think that emacs has become big enough now that many novice 
users will be more familiar with its editing style than 4 years ago.

> -teg

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From: "Robert A. Hayden" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 13:42:17 -0600 (CST)

> Anybody else for this change? 

If you want to delete from the cursor to the end of the line, jsut press 
return and then ^k.

____        Robert A. Hayden          <=> [email-masked]
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		       n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)

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From: Jeff Traigle <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 14:51:07 -0500 (EST)

> We will be investigating the feasibility of having an emacs-style ^K option.

I rather like Pico the way it is in this regard. Wouldn't it make more 
sense (and be less effort) to just get the feature of Pine implimented 
that will put people directly into their alternative editor so all of 
these people who prefer emacs commands can easily use emacs within Pine 
instead of insisting that Pico be changed?

Just a thought.

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                                 Jeff Traigle                                |
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From: Pekka Kytolaakso <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 23:15:00 +0300

Your message dated: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:05:22 PDT

> > We will be investigating the feasibility of having an emacs-style ^K option

> deletion. I think that emacs has become big enough now that many novice 

I don't think this is a good idea. Even the small changes that have been
made in pine 3.8* have caused local complaints.

Pekka Kytölaakso

PS
	If y haven't noticed there is a two-chacracter emacs-like
	kill-to-end-of-line: ^M^K ;-)

---------------------------------------------------------------
[email-masked]     CSC - Tieteellinen laskenta
[email-masked]  PL 405 FIN-02101 Espoo FINLAND
Phone: +358 0 4571       Telefax: + 358 0 4572302

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From: David L Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 13:25:37 -0800 (PST)

Ummm...  I didn't exactly promise this for the next release...

It is "on the list" and I can see how it would be usefull, but it is hard
to tell yet when it will get to the top... 

--DLM

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From: Mike Grupenhoff <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 16:36:29 +0000

On Tue, 29 Mar 1994, Omi Chandiramani wrote:

> When c
omposing a message in Pico it would be really nice if Ctrl-k (Del 
> and bang Ctrl-d 15 or more times. 

You could always push <Return>-<Control K> to delete from the middle of 
the line.  I like ^K the way it is.

---
Mike Grupenhoff
[email-masked]
There's no place like ~

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From: John Lamp <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 09:24:23 +1000 (EST)

When I am in that situation, I tend to just <return><Ctrl-k> then <delete>
if I want to join the line back up. <Ctrl-j> fixes any reformatting if
necessary. Much simpler than all the <Ctrl-d>'s

Cheers
John

   _--_|\             John Lamp, originating in Hobart, Tasmania
  /      \                 Phone: 002 20 2957 - Fax: 002 34 5685
  \_.--._/                 email: [email-masked]
        v <----------<<<          [email-masked]

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From: Ian Dunkin <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 10:52:59 +0100 (BST)

On Tue, 29 Mar 1994, Stephen Smoogen wrote:

> > an emacs-style ^K as well...

> users will be more familiar with its editing style than 4 years ago.

Yes, that would be nice, so that it can stay simple for the novices, but
can be made to behave EMACS-style for those familiar with EMACS.  The
problem is not that kill-to-end-of-line behaviour is not achievable some
other way, but that an EMACS user's typing ahead fingers incorrigibly
assume that this is what ^K will do.. 

    I.

--
Ian Dunkin <[email-masked]>
--

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From: Keith Christopher <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 08:26:10 -0500 (EST)

David,
   I understand about not having a backtab option to tab back through 
incoming folders, however how about not forcing a backtab on people let 
them choose at compile time ? Basically,

   How about adding the backtab as a makefile option ? 

                            ,,,
                           (o o)
+----------------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo------------------------------------------+
|  Keith Christopher                    |  Unix System Adminstrator           |
|  Welch Medical Library                |  Part Time SuperHero                |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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From: James Dryfoos <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 09:06:55 -0500

On Tue, 29 Mar 1994, David L Miller wrote:

> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 13:25:37 -0800 (PST)
> From: David L Miller <[email-masked]>
> To: Sharon Deng <[email-masked]>
> Cc: PINE INFO <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: Distribution List
> 
> 

While on the subject of next release, I cannot resist asking for more.
As most mailers now support delivery receipts, could this optino be added 
to Pine (that is, the option to request a delivery receipt).  It should 
just be a matter of adding one header line.  Also, maybe it would be nice 
to allow old-growth users the ability to add their own header lines (I 
can see why this would be debatable).

Thanks for the great work.

  -- Jim

==========================================================================
James D. Dryfoos                   | [email-masked]
MIT Lincoln Labs, Group 28         |
244 Wood Street, MailStop: C159    | (617) 981-2008 - office
Lexington, MA 02173, Earth         | (617) 981-0782 - fax
==========================================================================

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From: Terry Gray <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 08:03:38 -0800 (PST)

Keith,
The problem is that (Unix) Pine is constrained to deal with ascii, and 
backtab is not an ascii character, nor does it seem to  have a universal 
definition via a sequence of characters (ala arrow keys.)  Also, unless a 
key is *very* widely available on keyboards, trying to add support 
for it leads to serious support headaches for us. 

If this impression is incorrect, please let us know, and we can look at
the issue again. 

-teg  (pretending to be David...)

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From: Terry Gray <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 08:06:04 -0800 (PST)

> can see why this would be debatable).

It is indeed debatable, but we've pretty much caved in on trying to hold 
the line on user-defined headers.  Details later, after we are further 
along with the new code...

-teg

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From: Mark Lawrence Kornbluh <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 11:58:39 -0600 (CST)

On Wed, 30 Mar 1994, James Dryfoos wrote:
> just be a matter of adding one header line.  
I would like to second this request. For important e-mail, one likes to 
know that it arrives.
Mark Kornbluh

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From: James Dryfoos <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 13:20:58 -0500

On Wed, 30 Mar 1994, Mark Lawrence Kornbluh wrote:

> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 11:58:39 -0600 (CST)
> From: Mark Lawrence Kornbluh <[email-masked]>
> To: James Dryfoos <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: Delivery Receipts
> 

I would like to remark that the reception of a requested delivery receipt
does not mean the mail reached its destination.  Picture an SMTP gateway that
receives the SMTP mail and then forwards it to its actual destination --
could be a cc:Mail system ...  The receipt would be sent out from the 
SMTP gateway sysytem which does not mean the message got to the cc:Mail 
mailbox.  Also, there are still systems that do not generate return 
receipts.

However, as I am the one that requested the receipt request in Pine, I do 
recognize that it would be a nice feature.  Once you understand the 
system you are sending mail to, you can learn how to interpretate the 
receipt.

  -- Jim