Subject: PC/Unix compatability (again!)

From: John Stumbles <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 21:47:49 GMT

I was wrong about another aspect of the compatability between Unix and PC 
versions: mailboxes - other than INBOX - do not seem to be readable by Unix 
pine 3.88 when they have been written by PC Pine 3.89.

This is of course a case where the PC-written mailboxes are in DOS file 
format, and Unix Pine (presumably) expects Unix file format.

<sigh>

Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick here?

I assumed that the point of PC-PINE using IMAP was to allow it to
manipulate the same mailboxes that the native Unix Pine does, and so 
allow users to switch seamlessly between one implementation and another. 
The more-or-less compatability between the two versions in reading 
signature and address book files strengthened my assumption that this was 
one of the design criteria of PINE.

In an academic environment this holds out the promise that the user can
normally use the PC based version, but when away from base can log in over
the network and use the Unix hosted version and still have the same
environment, including access to their mail folders, address book etc.
This seems like a very important potential benefit, and a reason for
choosing Pine rather than NuPOP, Eudora, PC-ELM, Lifeline or whatever. 

Am I wrong about the design philosophy, or is it just buggy? Or is it the
difference in versions? Unfortunately I'm not sysadmin of the unix box so
I can't up the Unix version to match the DOS one. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking PINE, I like it: it's straightforward
to use and fairly easy to set up - not what I'd say about the others. (And
I _love_ the postpone composition feature!) I'd just like to know what
it's _supposed_ to do, and have it do it! 

:-)

BTW, this is all with the packet-driver version of PC Pine. I tried the 
PCNFS version and it didn't run (I forget why - I think it said it 
couldn't find its IMAP server). It didn't have any documentation on how 
to set up the PCNFS version, and the Packet Driver version worked so I've 
stuck with it. Can anyone tell me how to get the PCNFS ver. working?

John Stumbles                                              Reading University
[email-masked]                                        0734 318435
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From: Mark Crispin <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 14:31:38 -0800 (PST)

If you are using IMAP from PC Pine and not the local DOS filesystem, then PC
Pine and UNIX Pine are completely compatible.

If you are using the local DOS filesystem to store mailboxes from PC Pine, the
file formats have two differences.  One difference is in newline convention;
the other is in the representation of timezones.

UNIX Pine 3.90 will be capable of reading the mailboxes written by PC Pine on
the local DOS filesystem, with the addition of a new UNIX MTX driver that
parallels the local file driver on DOS.

PC Pine will also be able to read Unix Pine mailboxes in ``MTX'' format (but
not other UNIX Pine format mailboxes -- Unix Pine presently is capable of
supporting nearly 1/2 dozen different formats of mail.  DOS lacks the address
space to have such extensive support).

We do not, however, recommend using PC Pine to read mailboxes that reside on a
UNIX server through filesystem operations (e.g. through NFS or Novell) instead
of IMAP.  This is because UNIX-based mailboxes require some rather complex
locking operations which are unavailable on DOS.  Access will work, but the
protection afforded by this locking would be missing.  IMAP addresses these
problems, and is the recommended solution.

There will be external standalone programs to convert mailboxes between
different formats.

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From: John Stumbles <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 10:10:58 GMT

> the other is in the representation of timezones.

I'm quite happy to have both versions of PINE maintain the same set of 
mailboxes, with the PC version at least using IMAP to do so, but I 
evidently haven't got it set up to do so and I don't know how to do so - 
I think I'm in an RTFM situation here, but I don't have TFM! I pulled 
down the ZIP file from ftp.cac.washington.edu and it has installation 
notes etc but no manual - is there one I've missed?

Thanks for your message, Mark. I assume from your email address that 
you're part of the PINE team - ?

John Stumbles

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From: "Paul G. Leo Jr." <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 08:32:36 -0700 (MST)

Maybe I missed something in this thread.... Can one use an imap server 
with pc pine, but also use pine to access the same user mailbox

Paul Leo				e-mail	[email-masked]
University of Utah Medical School		[email-masked]
Eccles Institute of Human Genetics	
Building 533 Room 2100			phone	801-585-3653
Salt Lake City, Utah 84106		fax	801-585-3910

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From: Mark Crispin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 1994 08:06:18 -0800 (PST)

Please describe to us a bit more about how you have things set up, and we'll
try to help you figure out what to do next.

What do you set the inbox-path variable in your PC-Pine PINERC file?

Is there an IMAP server set up on your UNIX system?  [Do you know what this
means and/or how to determine if one is set up?]

You may find the file mail/pine-tech-notes on ftp.cac.washington.edu
(available via anonymous FTP) to be helpful as well.

Yes, I am the author of the c-client library which is the underlying mailbox
access engine used by Pine, imapd, and various other email tools.  I also
invented the IMAP protocol back in 1986.

In general, though, it's better to contact the Pine team by use of the email
address [email-masked] than to contact individuals directly.  That
way, questions (and their answers) are seen by everyone.