Subject: Documentation for Pine - how to send?

From: Joel Ness <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 13:03:54 -0600

I've received quite a few request for copies of our long and short Pine
documents (I've also got a short pico handout). Some folks have requested I send
them a binhexed version or BASE64 or uuencode, some that I ftp it, and some that
I include it as MIME enclosure to the mailing list.

Would it be overtaxing things to send out the docs as an enclosure to the whole
list? This would seem to be a nice way to get things out to everyone, but I
don't want to overload a lot of people's mailboxes. Also, these are Mac MS Word
files. To include them as a MIME enclosure I'd need to transfer them as a binary
file to my unix account and have Pine include the files in a message. In order
not to lose any resource fork or Finder information I'd have to put the binary
file I transfer up in MacBinary format. Would it be useful to most folks to get
a MIME binary enclosure of a Macbinary formatted file?

I'm willing to send things out in a couple of different ways, but I thought I'd
see if there was any one method that would work out for all or most people.

I think what we're getting into here is a more general discussion of what
techniques are the most useful for doing these kinds of file transfers. I'll
wait a day or so hear and see if we hear any specific suggestions or general
opinions on this topic.
_________________________
Joel Ness
UMD Information Services
[email-masked]
(218) 726-8841

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From: Jack Churchill <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 09:19:49 +1100 (EST)

> a MIME binary enclosure of a Macbinary formatted file?

Depends how big the files are but it's traditional to make them available
via anonymous ftp.  If you don't want to or can't then the next best
method is to MIME them to the list.  If we are seriously advocating MIME
for multi-media mail then lets' use it!  MACWord files shouldn't require
fork information - if it does then we have major problems ahead of us when
documents such as MSWord files have to be exchanged more often between
PCs, MACs and unix platforms.  I can read just about all of the more
popular word processor files generated by PCs and MACs on my unix
workstation via DECwrite (and I presume there are other perhaps better
alternatives like Framemaker).  So let's use MIME for the transport to
push the documents around to try it out.  If it doesn't work then
perhaps MIME is a lame duck and needs major changes.

> wait a day or so hear and see if we hear any specific suggestions or general

I've given my 2 cents worth.

  Jack N. Churchill                         | [email-masked]
  CSIRO  Division of Exploration and Mining | [email-masked]
  PO Box 136  North Ryde  NSW  2113         | Phone:  +61 2 887 8884
  Australia                                 | Fax:    +61 2 887 8921

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From: Mike Ramey <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 09:02:35 -0800 (PST)

There are lots of comp.mail newsgroups.
It's about time (!) we had a comp.mail.pine newsgroup.
And an anonymous ftp site for distributed AND contributed files.
!!! -mr

On Thu, 11 Nov 1993, Joel Ness wrote:
> documents (I've also got a short pico handout). 
> 
> Would it be overtaxing things to send out the docs as an enclosure 
> to the whole list?

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From: Ken Weaverling <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 12:22:42 -0500 (EST)

> It's about time (!) we had a comp.mail.pine newsgroup.

It would take a few months and carefully following the procedures. Start
to read news.groups carefully, and also news.announce.newgroups. If
everyone is interested, I can start the process going.  However, it should
be discussed on the mailing list here for a while. 

One requirement is that it will eventually go out to vote and this will
require 100 more yes votes than no, and at least 2/3 majority in favour.

One sure fire way of making some of those overly-sensitive news admins
to vote against a group is not following the procedures!

BTW, I would support the group. Reading news beats having tons of mail.

Ken Weaverling          [email-masked]
    Manager of Computer Services
   Stanton/Wilmington Campuses of
Delaware Technical & Community College

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From: David L Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 11:28:43 -0800 (PST)

The question or a Pine newsgroup comes up from time to time.  Our position is
that we do not object to it, but we cannot supply any additional management
resources for it.  As far as anonymous ftp access, we will be happy to
distribute contributions.  Currently, most of the contributions are rolled
into the source distribution in the contrib directory.  Would it be more
beneficial for users if we maintained a separate mail/contrib directory on
ftp.cac.washington.edu? 

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    [email-masked]  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

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From: Ken Weaverling <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 15:01:25 -0500 (EST)

> beneficial for users if we maintained a separate mail/contrib directory on

Can I infer from this that you are saying that if a newsgroup did exist,
that the Pine development team would not have the time to read it?  Since
if this is so, then the effectiveness of the group would be greatly
diminished.

Of course, there is always a two-way news<->newsgroup gateway but they can
be ugly to maintain and occasionally blow up -- plus I have no experience
setting one up myself...

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From: David L Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 12:14:15 -0800 (PST)

No, if it is created we will read it, but we won't commit to gateway 
management, etc.  Sorry about the confusion.

--DLM

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From: Henry Yung-Heng Kuo <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1993 16:03:53 -0800 (PST)

Hi there! 

It might be a stupid problem.  How can I use pine to connect newsgroup 
and ftp sites?

            `~~~~~~
             @(0-0)
---------oOO----^---OOo-------

^.^ Henry.........
------------------------------

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From: Barry Landy <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1993 18:56:55 +0000 (GMT)

I would support the new group also.

=======================================================================
Barry Landy, Head of Systems and Development,
University of Cambridge Computing Service
[email-masked]      0223-334713   +44-223-334713

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From: Kari Sutela <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1993 19:35:06 +0200

I'd also support a news group.

/KS

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From: Oved Ben-Aroya <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 07:44:30 +0200 (EET)

On Fri, 12 Nov 1993, David L Miller wrote:

> resources for it.

I vote for a newsgroup.  A smaller, more technically related, mailing 
list may still be needed.

>                    As far as anonymous ftp access, we will be happy to

I'd say it depeneds on the volume of contrib directory.

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From: Philip Hazel <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 09:13:28 +0000 (GMT)

> BTW, I would support the group. Reading news beats having tons of mail.

Hear! Hear! Especially when you have just been away for two weeks...

Philip

[This somewhat empty message sent to indicate support for a newsgroup.]

--
Philip Hazel                   University Computing Service,
[email-masked]             New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
[email-masked]          England.  Phone: +44 223 334714

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From: [email-masked] (Bill Campbell)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 08:01:57 -0800 (PST)

> list may still be needed.
I think a news group is fine, but I think the mailing list needs
to be kept in its entirety.  There are still many people who
don't have news available so the mailing list reaches a much
larger audience -- particularly since the subject is e-mail.

The biz.sco news hierarchy is an excellent example of a small
news group that has a bi-directional news gateway to a mailing
list.  This has been working well for several years, and a large
percentage of the readers don't have news access.

Bill
--
INTERNET:  [email-masked]   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:        uunet!camco!bill   8545 SE 68th Street
FAX:           (206) 232-9186   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591